| --- Log opened Sun Jul 17 00:00:24 2011 | ||
| --- Day changed Sun Jul 17 2011 | ||
| blackburn | sonney2k: is it possible to put all of our interfaces to some interface/..? it looks messy now | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| @sonney2k | f-x, set_loss - I would for now only do this on case by case basis | 00:01 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, i.e. for SGD-QN and SGD | 00:01 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, nothing is impossible | 00:01 |
| @sonney2k | but iti is work | 00:01 |
| f-x | sonney2k: better.. i shall see | 00:02 |
| @sonney2k | makefile adjustments / include path changes... | 00:02 |
| blackburn | okay may be later we'll do it, with ruby, lua and so on - many many folders | 00:02 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, btw have you seen leons anser? | 00:02 |
| @sonney2k | answer | 00:03 |
| blackburn | time for sleep | 00:03 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, if we do it then we should do the *_modular -> * rename | 00:03 |
| blackburn | yeah | 00:03 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, or at least rename the others legacy | 00:03 |
| @sonney2k | or static | 00:03 |
| blackburn | and we have to update libshogunui I guess | 00:04 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, how? | 00:04 |
| f-x | sonney2k: yeah.. seeing is different from understanding, though :) | 00:04 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, ok | 00:04 |
| blackburn | I mean some classes aren't available in libshoguuin | 00:04 |
| blackburn | uin :D | 00:04 |
| bettyboo | crazy!! blackburn | 00:04 |
| blackburn | kernels, preprocessors, classifiers | 00:05 |
| blackburn | who is using it? gunnar? | 00:05 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, yes and others | 00:06 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, it is the only way to support matlab currently... | 00:06 |
| @sonney2k | and recall that r_modular/octave-modular are not really stable due to swig bugs | 00:07 |
| blackburn | I like the way .sg code looks but how to use it?! no matplotlib, no any other cool stuff from python or another lang | 00:07 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, sure one can use this | 00:07 |
| @sonney2k | or did you mean the cmdline thing? | 00:07 |
| blackburn | yes, cmdline | 00:07 |
| @sonney2k | ok - yeah... | 00:07 |
| @sonney2k | I wouldn't let this die too soon | 00:08 |
| @sonney2k | it doesn't hurt and is close to zero effort to keep working | 00:08 |
| @sonney2k | who knows - might be that we drop swig at some point for a polished ex-static interface | 00:08 |
| blackburn | in fact it could be applicable to common lisp | 00:09 |
| blackburn | it is easy to implement function like | 00:09 |
| blackburn | (shogun | 00:09 |
| blackburn | *some .sg code* | 00:09 |
| blackburn | ) | 00:09 |
| blackburn | :D | 00:10 |
| bettyboo | <:*) | 00:10 |
| blackburn | but it is exotic thing to do | 00:10 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, like lush | 00:10 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, btw regarding the different default values in sgd... | 00:11 |
| @sonney2k | the bscale thing was indeed not intended by leon | 00:11 |
| @sonney2k | I asked him at some point and he said that was a bug that didn't hurt though... | 00:11 |
| f-x | sonney2k: oh.. so it was his code that had the bug? | 00:12 |
| f-x | i'll revert ours back to where it was | 00:12 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, I have to check whether I find the email | 00:13 |
| f-x | sonney2k: and btw how should i interpret the line 'one way is to have lambda decrease slightly slower than 1/t a priori'? | 00:13 |
| f-x | is there a specific way to do this? | 00:13 |
| blackburn | okay, powering off, see you later | 00:14 |
| f-x | bye! | 00:14 |
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| @sonney2k | cu blackburn | 00:15 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, yeah found the email | 00:16 |
| @sonney2k | in sgd they had some n++ | 00:19 |
| @sonney2k | and n++ in the loop in addition | 00:19 |
| f-x | right - two increments, i don't know why | 00:19 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, yeah leon said that this was unintentional when I asked him | 00:19 |
| @sonney2k | still if it works better in practise whe just use what they do without asking further | 00:19 |
| @sonney2k | it is not uncommon that bugs help performance :D | 00:19 |
| f-x | :) | 00:19 |
| bettyboo | :Q | 00:19 |
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| --- Log closed Sun Jul 17 00:19:46 2011 | ||
| --- Log opened Sun Jul 17 00:19:51 2011 | ||
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| -!- Irssi: Join to #shogun was synced in 4 secs | 00:19 | |
| f-x | the performance difference must have come from the loss function wholly, then | 00:20 |
| @sonney2k | could very well be... | 00:29 |
| * sonney2k is off to bed too | 00:31 | |
| @sonney2k | cu f-x ! | 00:31 |
| f-x | see you sonney2k! :) | 00:31 |
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| @sonney2k | f-x, would you mind doing the minor changes to get the streaming* stuff working with the modular interfaces? | 21:22 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn1, do you feel like going berserk today? | 21:22 |
| blackburn1 | sonney2k: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/3/imageruy.png/ | 21:22 |
| blackburn1 | I've done python HLLE ;) | 21:22 |
| blackburn1 | unroll swiss roll yo | 21:23 |
| @sonney2k | that's a real beauty... | 21:23 |
| f-x | sonney2k: ok. do i need to change anything to make it compile with stuff like java_modular | 21:23 |
| -!- blackburn1 is now known as blackburn | 21:23 | |
| f-x | ? | 21:23 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, no it will work out of the box for all languages | 21:23 |
| @sonney2k | once you've done this of course | 21:23 |
| blackburn | I think it is time for some java | 21:24 |
| blackburn | or to bomb saddam | 21:24 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, I am going to rename all the static interfaces to *_static now | 21:24 |
| f-x | sonney2k: okay, i'll rectify it | 21:24 |
| blackburn | ohhh | 21:24 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, similar fun | 21:24 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, thanks! | 21:24 |
| blackburn | some race to get it compile | 21:24 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, blackburn I think I will really move all the interface stuff into src/interfaces | 21:25 |
| @sonney2k | but let me start with the static ones | 21:25 |
| @sonney2k | then f-x still has some time to send in his modified typemaps | 21:25 |
| blackburn | if you have any 'tasks' - i'm ready | 21:26 |
| f-x | hmm. thanks | 21:26 |
| blackburn | ehh.. f-x is modifying typemaps? | 21:26 |
| f-x | blackburn: not typemaps, only some .i files | 21:26 |
| blackburn | ah I see | 21:27 |
| blackburn | oh hahha woman football here on tv | 21:28 |
| @sonney2k | sorry yes | 21:28 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, finals are usually 1:0 for some one and most boring games ever | 21:29 |
| blackburn | what is it? wc? | 21:29 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: do you like football? ;) | 21:30 |
| bettyboo | rotfl. | 21:30 |
| @sonney2k | what bettyboo said :) | 21:30 |
| bettyboo | sonney2k: why? ain't we the most cool ones? :D | 21:30 |
| @sonney2k | we are, that is why we are working on shogun :D | 21:30 |
| blackburn | oh it is usa | 21:31 |
| blackburn | I have to burn usa flag now | 21:31 |
| @sonney2k | I learned that the Japanese did beat the German team - so they must win now otherwise Germany will look like a bunch of loosers. | 21:33 |
| blackburn | haha, it reminds me that during one of men championship russia beaten future champion | 21:34 |
| CIA-87 | shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * r3de2daa / (2 files): make function return void - http://bit.ly/q2s4Ny | 21:34 |
| CIA-87 | shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * r6baeb64 / (2 files): some more work on poims for ppwm - http://bit.ly/phuqTP | 21:34 |
| CIA-87 | shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * r90da60c / examples/undocumented/python_modular/distribution_ppwm_modular.py : some poim ppwm test code - http://bit.ly/pgEIkM | 21:34 |
| CIA-87 | shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * r96b067d / src/modular/SGBase.i : potential java pragmas to derive from Serializable - http://bit.ly/nlfnJc | 21:34 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: does it works? pragmas for serializable? | 21:34 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, no | 21:35 |
| @sonney2k | I commented this part of the code | 21:35 |
| blackburn | ah | 21:35 |
| blackburn | potential | 21:35 |
| @sonney2k | I can get the JNI class to be derived from that | 21:35 |
| @sonney2k | and the module class | 21:35 |
| @sonney2k | but not the actual object classes | 21:35 |
| blackburn | module?! | 21:35 |
| @sonney2k | no idea how that is intended | 21:35 |
| blackburn | seriously what is module | 21:35 |
| blackburn | I'm sure it is not a java part | 21:36 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, well look at any of Kernel.java Features.java Preprocessor.java | 21:36 |
| @sonney2k | might be some swig helper object | 21:36 |
| blackburn | ah yes I had a question | 21:36 |
| blackburn | WTF is it | 21:36 |
| blackburn | init_shogun, etc | 21:36 |
| blackburn | is it declared somewhere? | 21:37 |
| @sonney2k | sure :D | 21:37 |
| blackburn | ah okay saying module you mean that thing swig generates, right? | 21:37 |
| blackburn | I was really curious what is modules in java :D | 21:38 |
| @sonney2k | yes | 21:39 |
| blackburn | I'd like to converse all java examples for some derived class | 21:40 |
| blackburn | Test or so | 21:40 |
| blackburn | as it was intended to be | 21:40 |
| blackburn | hehe I've just thought how we will write changelog for shogun | 21:41 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, please don't do so just now | 21:47 |
| @sonney2k | just get the examples to compile / work for now | 21:47 |
| blackburn | of course | 21:47 |
| @sonney2k | because we might want to do the testing slightly different: | 21:47 |
| @sonney2k | we could use python to generate all the 'master tests' | 21:48 |
| @sonney2k | what i mean is python writes out shogun objects | 21:48 |
| @sonney2k | by using shogun's native serialization | 21:48 |
| @sonney2k | now we can load such an object from java(!) | 21:48 |
| @sonney2k | and then just compare if the result is the same | 21:48 |
| blackburn | I see | 21:49 |
| @sonney2k | that might be even better than replicating the effort... | 21:49 |
| @sonney2k | duplicating | 21:49 |
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| * sonney2k moves everything to interfaces/ | 21:54 | |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, there is one problem with this move | 21:55 |
| @sonney2k | currently libshogun, libshogunui are considered 'interfaces' | 21:55 |
| blackburn | why? | 21:56 |
| @sonney2k | why is not the question... the question is how to fix it... | 21:56 |
| @sonney2k | the problem currently is that we generate the Makefile from Makefile.template | 21:56 |
| @sonney2k | and the path is $interface/Makefile | 21:57 |
| blackburn | hehe | 21:57 |
| @sonney2k | what I could do is to always compile libshogun/libshogunui | 21:57 |
| blackburn | why not | 21:57 |
| @sonney2k | hmmhh | 21:57 |
| @sonney2k | then I could create an exception for these IF's | 21:58 |
| @sonney2k | ahh wait | 21:58 |
| @sonney2k | in principle one could compile at least the static interfaces w/o having access to the libshogun src | 21:58 |
| @sonney2k | ahh screw it | 21:59 |
| @sonney2k | no one is using this anyways | 21:59 |
| blackburn | I really don't undestrand why libshogun isn't default. shogun without libshogun? | 21:59 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, I am thinking of even more drastic changes | 22:02 |
| @sonney2k | how about moving libshogunui into libshogun/ui ? | 22:02 |
| blackburn | haha | 22:02 |
| blackburn | up to you, I have no special prefer | 22:03 |
| @sonney2k | currently we have el stupido symlinks that do this | 22:03 |
| @sonney2k | and these symlinks always cause problems | 22:03 |
| blackburn | I think less is better, so less dirs in src is better | 22:03 |
| * sonney2k is pondering | 22:03 | |
| @sonney2k | hmmhh there is one catch | 22:04 |
| @sonney2k | every base-level dir is supposed to create some object | 22:04 |
| @sonney2k | or library | 22:04 |
| * blackburn thinks sonney2k should be developer at SAP | 22:04 | |
| @sonney2k | ?! | 22:05 |
| @sonney2k | so that would remove the libshogunui lib | 22:05 |
| blackburn | well it would be very funny for some HUGE enterprise system :) | 22:05 |
| @sonney2k | if it was under libshogun/ui | 22:05 |
| blackburn | "why not to move resource planning to logistics?" :D | 22:05 |
| @sonney2k | so it should probably stay | 22:05 |
| blackburn | coin flipping design :D | 22:08 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, nope it must stay - otherwise we have to change the whole logic | 22:08 |
| @sonney2k | but I think it makes a lot of sense to just make libshogun/libshogunui building explicit | 22:09 |
| @sonney2k | so we can add this as dependency for any build | 22:09 |
| blackburn | libshogunui is not very large at all | 22:11 |
| blackburn | why not to add it permanently | 22:11 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, you mean inside libshogun? | 22:13 |
| blackburn | inside or not | 22:13 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, yeah why not... | 22:14 |
| @sonney2k | die libshogunui | 22:14 |
| * sonney2k is switching to berserk mode | 22:15 | |
| blackburn | hehe | 22:15 |
| bettyboo | :*) | 22:15 |
| blackburn | changelog going to be a poem | 22:15 |
| @sonney2k | now we have interfaces libshogun and modular as dirs | 22:16 |
| * blackburn is reading joshua bloch' effective java | 22:19 | |
| blackburn | Long sum = 0L; | 22:20 |
| blackburn | for (long i = 0; i<Integer.MAX_VALUE; i++) { sum += i; } | 22:20 |
| blackburn | hehe nice example | 22:20 |
| blackburn | goooooal | 22:21 |
| @sonney2k | I am not there yet... | 22:22 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, some more ideas... | 22:29 |
| blackburn | :D | 22:29 |
| @sonney2k | currently we install to /usr/include/shogun | 22:29 |
| @sonney2k | so why not rename libshogun into shogun | 22:29 |
| @sonney2k | ? | 22:29 |
| @sonney2k | then I don't need to do any magic when installing | 22:29 |
| blackburn | +1 | 22:30 |
| blackburn | :D | 22:30 |
| bettyboo | :) | 22:30 |
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| @sonney2k | blackburn, do you know what the difference between include "xxx" and include <xxx> is? | 22:37 |
| blackburn | hmm include <> uses some headers from paths, afaik | 22:38 |
| blackburn | I mean #include <cblas.h> works, #include "cblas.h" | 22:38 |
| blackburn | not | 22:38 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: | 22:48 |
| @sonney2k | hmmhh that works here too ?! | 22:48 |
| blackburn | what? | 22:48 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: weekly report? | 22:56 |
| @sonney2k | sure... | 22:56 |
| blackburn | I've done nothing | 22:56 |
| blackburn | :D | 22:56 |
| @sonney2k | uh-oh that will look bad ;-) | 22:56 |
| blackburn | okay I'll show HLLE picture and everyone will say "ohh that guy is awesome" :D | 22:58 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: goaal :D | 23:05 |
| @sonney2k | ??? | 23:06 |
| * sonney2k starts a live stream | 23:06 | |
| blackburn | 2-2 | 23:06 |
| @sonney2k | ...no 2:1? | 23:06 |
| @sonney2k | indeed | 23:06 |
| blackburn | it is going to be interested | 23:06 |
| blackburn | interesting* | 23:06 |
| blackburn | I'd like to watch penalty-kicks ;) | 23:07 |
| bettyboo | blackburn, ^_^ | 23:07 |
| @sonney2k | impressive! | 23:07 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: here it is | 23:10 |
| blackburn | serialhex: we are missing you darling :* | 23:10 |
| @sonney2k | penalty stuff? | 23:10 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: weekly report | 23:10 |
| blackburn | :D | 23:10 |
| serialhex | ...hmm wah who??? | 23:10 |
| serialhex | how is everyone? | 23:10 |
| blackburn | serialhex: i'm fine, what's up with you? | 23:11 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, so penalty kicks? | 23:11 |
| @sonney2k | or is it over? | 23:11 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: not yet | 23:11 |
| serialhex | been working blackburn... i got a job fixing computers & it's been taking up most of my time | 23:11 |
| @sonney2k | serialhex, congrats! | 23:11 |
| serialhex | the knife people didnt like me, so i got a better job! | 23:11 |
| serialhex | thanks sonney2k! | 23:12 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: penalty kicks! | 23:12 |
| @sonney2k | ahh | 23:12 |
| * sonney2k is relieved | 23:12 | |
| @sonney2k | too bad that I have a 10-30secs delay | 23:12 |
| blackburn | sonney2k: why? turn on tv ;) | 23:12 |
| @sonney2k | serialhex, fits you much better | 23:12 |
| serialhex | penalty kicks? i assume you're talking about football? (or as we amerikans call it: soccer) | 23:12 |
| blackburn | serialhex: yeah women playing football :D | 23:13 |
| @sonney2k | fußball | 23:13 |
| bettyboo | HA | 23:13 |
| serialhex | yes it does! soooo much easier to fix a computer than sell a knife IMO | 23:13 |
| serialhex | dont get technical on me sonney2k, i don't have the cool german-keys on my keyboard :P | 23:13 |
| blackburn | ß | 23:13 |
| serialhex | so whos playing? | 23:14 |
| blackburn | serialhex: usa-japan | 23:14 |
| blackburn | ßöccer | 23:14 |
| blackburn | :D | 23:14 |
| serialhex | yeah, and you blackburn!! with your weird cryllic keys!! | 23:14 |
| blackburn | serialhex: not cyrillic | 23:14 |
| blackburn | cyrillic is йъгщ | 23:14 |
| serialhex | no? i thoughts thats what the alphabet is called | 23:14 |
| blackburn | I mean ß is not cyrillic ;) | 23:15 |
| serialhex | i don't know wether to cheer on the us or japan... | 23:15 |
| blackburn | sonney2k wants japan to win cause they have beaten germany | 23:15 |
| * sonney2k too | 23:16 | |
| blackburn | I'd like to see a fight | 23:16 |
| serialhex | lol | 23:16 |
| blackburn | why not to fight | 23:16 |
| blackburn | usa starts | 23:16 |
| @sonney2k | pearl harbor ;-) | 23:16 |
| serialhex | yeah, *THAT* was a fight! | 23:16 |
| blackburn | miss | 23:16 |
| blackburn | miss miss | 23:16 |
| blackburn | ohhhhhh | 23:16 |
| blackburn | foot save | 23:16 |
| blackburn | shit | 23:16 |
| blackburn | wonderful | 23:17 |
| blackburn | wtf is it | 23:17 |
| blackburn | ahaha | 23:17 |
| serialhex | blackburn you're spoiling it for sonney2k!! | 23:17 |
| blackburn | 0-0 | 23:17 |
| blackburn | ah | 23:17 |
| blackburn | 0-1 I mean :D | 23:17 |
| @sonney2k | still 2:2 here | 23:18 |
| blackburn | uh-oh us girls are going to be fucked up | 23:18 |
| serialhex | ??? | 23:18 |
| @sonney2k | japan will do it | 23:18 |
| blackburn | 1-0 japan leads | 23:18 |
| @sonney2k | another miss | 23:18 |
| serialhex | btw blackburn, i just got the e-mail & your images are always cool! | 23:18 |
| blackburn | serialhex: yeah it is something to show because I've done nothing | 23:19 |
| @sonney2k | 4 more to go... | 23:19 |
| blackburn | japanese goalie is AWESOME | 23:19 |
| @sonney2k | dammed one miss for japan | 23:19 |
| blackburn | she is going to deflect every ball :D | 23:19 |
| @sonney2k | yeahh | 23:20 |
| @sonney2k | another miss :D | 23:20 |
| blackburn | japan 2/3 - usa 0/3 | 23:20 |
| blackburn | usa 1/4 | 23:20 |
| @sonney2k | no single goal for usa yet | 23:20 |
| blackburn | you will see one | 23:20 |
| blackburn | in a min | 23:20 |
| blackburn | ;) | 23:20 |
| blackburn | japan wins! | 23:21 |
| @sonney2k | JAPAN | 23:22 |
| @sonney2k | yay | 23:22 |
| serialhex | awesome!!! | 23:22 |
| @sonney2k | very impressive! | 23:22 |
| serialhex | what was the final score? | 23:22 |
| @sonney2k | 5:3 | 23:23 |
| serialhex | nice! | 23:23 |
| blackburn | 2-2 and | 23:23 |
| blackburn | penalty kicks 3/5 - 1/5 | 23:23 |
| blackburn | yeah, 5:3 simply ;) | 23:23 |
| @sonney2k | now I hope there is no one here in Germany who complains about the German coach any longer... | 23:24 |
| @sonney2k | they all wanted her to quit because germany lost aganst japan | 23:24 |
| @sonney2k | pretty early on that is | 23:24 |
| blackburn | serialhex: we are going to implement shogun with assembly language, will you help us? | 23:26 |
| @sonney2k | admittedly the US players are much more attractive :D | 23:26 |
| blackburn | yeah not much men like japanese hehe | 23:27 |
| serialhex | sure blackburn... let me brush up on my assembler for like a YEAR!!! :P | 23:27 |
| blackburn | SHHHHHH my keyboard is not delivered yet | 23:28 |
| blackburn | the long long way from brookly | 23:28 |
| blackburn | n | 23:28 |
| blackburn | serialhex: the package delivery from us to cold cold russia takes 3-4 weeks :D | 23:30 |
| serialhex | wow... that's crazy! | 23:31 |
| serialhex | i would think it'd be faster than that... i mean, 2 weeks, max | 23:31 |
| blackburn | usps first class mail is SLOoooooooooooow | 23:31 |
| blackburn | i've spend ~100$ from gsoc on ebay lol | 23:32 |
| blackburn | serialhex: I've got amazon kindle dx from us :) | 23:36 |
| blackburn | week ago | 23:36 |
| blackburn | it was kinda hard cause they don't ship to russia hehe | 23:36 |
| serialhex | sweet! the kindle looks pretty sweet | 23:36 |
| serialhex | then hoed ya get it? | 23:37 |
| serialhex | magic? | 23:37 |
| blackburn | using shipito.com | 23:37 |
| blackburn | virtual us mailbox or so | 23:37 |
| serialhex | interesting... | 23:37 |
| blackburn | it costs more in the case but it is worth it | 23:38 |
| blackburn | too much it in one sentence | 23:38 |
| blackburn | 'it' | 23:38 |
| serialhex | heh | 23:38 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, ohh dammed that restructuring requires some further changes... | 23:42 |
| @sonney2k | the GUI* clash | 23:43 |
| blackburn | :D | 23:43 |
| f-x | sonney2k: i'm facing some hardships too | 23:43 |
| f-x | StreamingFile should be in Library.i right? | 23:43 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, yes | 23:44 |
| f-x | And StreamingFileFrom*Features in..? | 23:44 |
| @sonney2k | too I would say | 23:47 |
| @sonney2k | blackburn, do you also smell that new include mess to pop up | 23:47 |
| blackburn | again? | 23:48 |
| f-x | sonney2k: ok there's the problem - StreamingSimpleFeatures would go to Features.i, and then it would need to include Library.i as StreamingSimpleFeatures has some code which depends on StreamingFileFromSimpleFeatures | 23:51 |
| @sonney2k | f-x, yes but there is a %import Library.i there already or? | 23:53 |
| f-x | sonney2k: only Preprocessor.i | 23:53 |
| f-x | and also | 23:54 |
| @sonney2k | then it needs another in features | 23:54 |
| f-x | Library.i doesn't import Features.i, so StreamingFileFrom*Features may not work there | 23:54 |
| f-x | it would become something like a mutual dependency | 23:55 |
| @sonney2k | that should work still | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Mon Jul 18 00:00:11 2011 | ||
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