IRC logs of #shogun for Monday, 2012-07-23

--- Log opened Mon Jul 23 00:00:17 2012
blackburnheiko: btw I've added some multitask to tutorial00:05
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gsomixsonney2k, all news will be tomorrow.00:15
gsomixI need to sleep a little00:15
gsomixgood night guys00:15
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wikingdone00:45
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blackburnpuffin444: good evening ;)03:08
puffin444Hey blackburn, how is it going?03:08
blackburnpretty fine and you?03:08
puffin444Doing well. Almost done coding the FITC algorithm. Eigen is a lifesaver.03:09
blackburn:D03:09
droopynot bad03:09
blackburnwhat is FITC?03:09
puffin444Sparse Approximation for GPs03:10
blackburnjust don't forget to guard it with HAVE_EIGEN303:10
puffin444Oh yes, will do.03:10
wikingyeey03:14
wikingmocked it ;)03:15
blackburnmockingwiking03:16
wikingblackburn: for sure ;)03:16
wikingbut now i should start pooring unit testing files into that PR03:17
wikingso that actually it'll make it worth to merge it03:17
blackburnit looks like you liked this idea pretty much :)03:17
wikingyeah03:18
wikingdunno why03:18
wikinggot into it03:18
CIA-18shogun: Sergey Lisitsyn master * r28824e9 / (7 files in 3 dirs): Added fused lasso capabilities to the SLEP solver - http://git.io/XZ1iLg04:17
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gsomix_good morning10:11
droopyroger!?!10:11
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wikingn4nd0: are u a split currently?15:10
n4nd0wiking: a split?15:12
n4nd0do you mean about this netsplit ^15:12
n4nd0if so, I have no idea15:12
n4nd0gtg now, bye!15:16
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wikinghahah15:16
wikingwell there goes n4nd0 :)15:17
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CIA-18shogun: Heiko Strathmann master * r62c71cf / (8 files in 4 dirs): Merge pull request #669 from karlnapf/master - http://git.io/JUQgpw17:11
CIA-18shogun: Heiko Strathmann master * r1cbdee8 / (3 files): make use of new data generator class - http://git.io/dsTzmw17:11
CIA-18shogun: Heiko Strathmann master * r3f6906d / (4 files in 2 dirs): made all python examples use data generator class - http://git.io/R_-Frw17:11
CIA-18shogun: Heiko Strathmann master * r5c16e8c / src/shogun/features/DataGenerator.h : typo - http://git.io/Z2HLaQ17:11
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gsomixsonney2k, hey, thunderstorm, hurricane, again. =___=17:28
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rieckmake your own decision: http://www.geekwire.com/2012/raunchy-windows-azure-dance-routine/19:32
blackburnrieck: m$ got totally crazy? :)19:34
emreceliktenI have seen this before, but this line still gets me: "In a strange effort to be inclusive, a monitor displaying the lyrics added, "or vagina.""19:48
blackburnI am sorry but do they mean it is good to have big and hard vagina? :D19:53
blackburnI lose some kind of logic here19:55
emreceliktenI think someone as stupid to organize this event might as well think anything19:55
blackburnyeah that should be an explanation19:56
emreceliktenhttp://www.kurzweilai.net/poison-attacks-against-machine-learning20:23
audyemrecelikten i've seen this happen20:47
audybots posting in forums to confuse spam detectors20:47
rieckyep, that's an interesting paper of blaine and pavel20:58
rieckunfortunately, they do not present a defense in this work.20:58
rieckhttp://arxiv.org/abs/1206.6389v121:00
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@sonney2krieck, what is the essence of this paper?21:12
@sonney2kI am rather surprised by this finding...21:12
@sonney2kgsomix, ohh good luck!21:12
rieckafaik, they idea is to maximally change the hyperplane with a few points21:13
rieckthis can be cast into an optimization problem, though np-hard.21:13
rieckhowever, if you relax it somewhat, you can still create havoc21:13
rieckactually, i didn't read the paper and just talked with blaine nelson21:13
gsomixsonney2k, hey :) it's all right21:13
riecki think it's not so surprising21:14
riecksimilar things have been shown by marius for  simple hypersphrere models21:14
riecka key point with all poisoning attacks is the ratio of malicious to benign training points21:15
@sonney2krieck, blackburn - wtf "The words MICRO and SOFT don’t apply to my penis or vagina.”?21:15
blackburnsonney2k: m$ that is21:15
riecksonney2k: i am afraid, i don't know about your penis.21:15
blackburnor vagina21:15
@sonney2krieck, I would expect one needs 0.1 * nr_train_points to do poisoning21:15
emreceliktenhaha21:15
@sonney2krieck, sure you do :D21:16
riecksonney2k: marius showed for hypersphere that the amount of movement from the original decision function is linear in the number of malicious points21:16
blackburnoh that's way too gay boys21:16
riecki am not sure, but i think there is a similar relation in the new paper21:16
@sonney2kyou were my office mate!21:16
rieckthat is, you can move the hyperplane by d percent if you control d percent of the data21:16
@sonney2kyeah but that really is not disturbing then21:17
rieckblackburn: you never wondered that only "boys" work on shogun?21:17
@sonney2krieck, blackburn is gay too - look at the pictures he sends around :D21:18
blackburnrieck: well it can be explained in other terms :)21:18
riecksonney2k: yep. i think it came to icml, because they modeled it nicely21:18
blackburnnamely women are bad in shoguning21:19
@sonney2kwiking, my internet connection broke down yesterday and is still flaky (here on that island)21:19
@sonney2kwiking, so no idea what you wanted to ask / waht the status is21:19
rieckblackburn: "shoguning"... i can imagine what that is ;)21:20
riecksonney2k: btw, is there a tom-tom app for android?21:20
blackburnrieck: we also have word vodking here21:20
@sonney2krieck, I just now see that pavel is a co-author on that paper...21:21
blackburnhis name sounds russian21:22
rieckhe's from moscow21:22
rieckanyway, i have to leave for dinner ... somebody is already calling my name21:22
wikingsonney2k: oh yeah still here?21:23
@sonney2kguys our 9th slot that we had to give away due to lack of mentors was nicely invested: http://jordi.inversethought.com/blog/octconf-2012-report/ and http://hg.savannah.gnu.org/hgweb/octave/graph/0ef151f9fdc921:23
@sonney2kblackburn, ^21:23
@sonney2kbasically octave has a JIT now :D21:23
wikingsonney2k: so weekly is about to be written & sent21:23
wikingsonney2k: and there was some thing about the configure script and Makefile in tests/unit but i've solved it in a way, just check the corresponding commit in the PR21:24
blackburnyeah much more useful than our crappy stuff21:24
blackburn:)21:24
@sonney2krieck, WIP AFAIK21:24
wikingsonney2k: whether u like the solution or not21:24
wikingsonney2k: i'll just do the changes that heiko1 told in the comments21:25
@sonney2kblackburn, what crappy stuff?21:25
wikingsonney2k: and let me know if there's anything else u wanna change in there21:25
blackburnsonney2k: the one I do for example :D21:25
@sonney2kblackburn, should we make shogun tests a git submodule?21:25
blackburnno, why?21:25
@sonney2kthen we can give wiking r/w access on that one too21:26
emreceliktenLook what I have done to this channel with a few pieces of text and a couple of links, everybody started talking21:26
blackburnemrecelikten: keep going on this way :)21:26
emrecelikten:D21:26
@sonney2kemrecelikten, more please21:26
blackburnsonney2k: in that case yes it makes sense21:26
@sonney2kI mean it is wiking / heiko pushing that stuff21:27
blackburnhowever is it needed?21:27
@sonney2kso they should just do it21:27
heiko1sonney2k, is it hard for the build bot to compile latex?21:27
@sonney2kheiko1, ???21:27
@sonney2khard as in penis / vagina?21:27
wikingsonney2k: heheh or u can give me r/w for shogun straight ;)21:27
heiko1lol ;) not exactly21:27
heiko1what do you guys have with that video? ;)21:28
heiko1sonney2k, in order to have a live version of shogun-tutorial like the latest doxygen online21:28
@sonney2kheiko1, I just can't stop lauging about it21:28
@sonney2klaughing21:28
heiko1hehe ;)21:28
droopy8)21:28
@sonney2kwonder when there will be some azure memes involving P* and V*'s21:28
@sonney2kwiking, that takes about a year :D21:29
@sonney2kask heiko!21:29
blackburnsonney2k: I think it could be a nice adv21:29
wikingheiko1: the reason i have that static const in the SGVector_unittest to avoid code repetition21:29
blackburnour cloud is hard just like your penis21:29
blackburnand flexible like21:29
blackburnyou know21:29
@sonney2kand soft21:29
@sonney2klike you know21:29
@sonney2kruns the soft you have21:30
wikingheiko1: imo it's just waste of lines to add everywhere that constant vector. but you are right that it should be rather randomly generated vectors21:30
heiko1wiking, I know, but its hard to overview when one starts doing this and since your tests will be serving as an example for others, Id like to avoid that. I had to search for the a vector when I first read it, so a lot of scrolling. And one line code-repetitions dont really hard --especially when we are in the context of testing , where coe repetition happens perse21:31
wikingheiko1: (nod)21:31
blackburnwhat the f you are talking about :D21:31
wikingheiko1: i rather then just remove that vector and simply use randomly generated vectors.21:31
@sonney2kisn't traveling salesmen in P* ?21:32
heiko1sonney2k, lol :D21:32
heiko1its in VP ;)21:32
@sonney2kohh no I think it is hard21:32
@sonney2kNP hard21:32
wiking;>21:32
blackburn:D21:32
droopy;)21:32
wikingi think it's even complete...21:33
heiko1wiking, great work btw on the testing stuff, I am really looking forward to that!21:33
@sonney2kheiko1, so what did you want to ask21:33
emreceliktenLaughing out loud here21:33
wikingheiko1: yeah i think we shoudl just roll out very fast a lot of tests21:33
@sonney2kblackburn, ok I am creating a submodule then21:33
emreceliktenNP hard21:33
heiko1sonney2k, would be nice to have a live version of shogun-tutorial like the latest doxygen online21:34
@sonney2kheiko1, that is no problem21:34
blackburnbtw I expect it grow up to 100-150 pages pretty fast21:34
@sonney2konly my network connection might make this impossible so in worst case it will have to wait 1 week21:35
blackburnin case of such big blank fields like heiko1 wants :D21:35
heiko1sonney2k, then go for it! would be cool!21:35
heiko1sonney2k ok21:35
@sonney2kheiko1, latex is already on the build server - doxygen uses latex to generate the formulas21:35
heiko1blackburn, but I like your font :)21:35
heiko1sonney2k, cool, then go!21:35
@sonney2kblackburn, did you already make a submodule out of the tutorial?21:35
blackburnnope21:35
blackburnI'll let you do the job21:36
blackburn:D21:36
@sonney2kblackburn, it will be shogun/tutorial right?21:36
blackburnexactly21:36
@sonney2kor shogun/doc/tutorial?21:36
@sonney2kwhat?21:36
@sonney2kor shogun/manual?21:37
blackburnshogun/tutorial21:37
@sonney2kok21:37
blackburnmanual is for soft P*21:37
@sonney2kblackburn, shoudl we move the other stuff then?21:37
blackburnwhich stuff?21:37
@sonney2kI mean to shogun/doc/reference21:37
@sonney2kthe doxygen doc21:37
blackburnhmm21:37
@sonney2kI mean it is a reference documentation21:38
blackburnhmm21:38
blackburnno idea21:38
@sonney2kby no means a tutorial21:38
@sonney2kbah21:38
blackburnI am ok with current structure21:38
blackburnjust add shogun/tutorial21:38
heiko1yeah just add21:39
@sonney2kbut it is cluttered21:39
@sonney2kwe have shogun/doc/images21:39
@sonney2kwe have shogun/doc/pages{,_cn}21:39
@sonney2kand some scripts in there21:39
blackburntutorial has some cluttered structure as well21:40
blackburnso?21:40
blackburn:)21:40
@sonney2kI will create shogun/doc/tutorial21:41
@sonney2kI will create shogun/doc/reference21:41
blackburnI will kill all humans21:43
blackburnall your bayes are belong to us21:43
blackburnsonney2k: are you still in mood to write up something?21:47
blackburnwe started already21:48
wikingok so heiko121:48
wikingwe have a problem :)))21:48
wikinglib/SGVector_unittest.cc:65: Failure21:48
wikingValue of: a.dot(a.vector,a.vector, a.vlen) Actual: 3521657.983552865221:48
wikingExpected: dot_val21:48
wikingWhich is: 3521657.983552864821:48
heiko1ha21:48
heiko1wiking, random values? :)21:48
wikingyes21:48
heiko1why does that happen?21:48
heiko1where do types change?21:48
wikingwell rounding error somewher21:48
wikingheiko1: nowhere21:48
heiko1mmh, ok21:49
wikingheiko1: so maybe we can say21:49
heiko1but the multiplication has to happen in exactly the same way21:49
heiko1if you do things like a+a21:49
wikingfabs(expected-got, 10E-6)21:49
blackburniirc double is for 8 valid digits21:49
heiko1and then check for 2*a21:49
wikingi mean21:49
blackburnam I wrong?21:49
wikingfabs(expected-got) < 10e-6 then we should accept21:49
heiko1wiking, 10E-6 is not enough21:50
blackburnheiko1: are you constructing moonwalkers?21:50
blackburn:D21:50
heiko1Immh, I didnt really think of this  :)21:50
@sonney2kblackburn, no it is true21:50
blackburnsonney2k: about digits?21:50
@sonney2kdouble should be 1e-12 to 1e-1621:50
heiko1I kind of had integer number in mind when I suggested this21:50
wikingheiko1: well if SGVector<float64_t>21:51
heiko1wiking, yeah, sorry my fault21:51
wikingthen i guess it's completely valid to say that it'll be any stupid float64_t21:51
heiko1yeah21:51
wikingso we can go really with some error21:51
wikingand that's it21:51
heiko1do it as precise as you can and then I think its fine21:51
wikingmmmhehehe21:51
blackburnwiking: other thing you may do is to reduce vectors21:51
heiko1since errors in implementation usually do not pop up in 10E-6 domains :)21:51
blackburn10E6 rather21:52
heiko1but make sure that it always passes. I had the problem with some of my tests that they passed only 99% of the time21:52
blackburnhah21:52
blackburnsome DR algorithm still passes in 99% of all time21:52
blackburnkernel LTSA IIRC21:53
wikingok this one goes ok:21:53
wikingfloat64_t error = CMath::abs (dot_val - a.dot(a.vector,a.vector, a.vlen)); 66   EXPECT_TRUE(error < 10E-10);21:53
blackburnheiko1: I have one issue with my multishit21:54
heiko1wiking, ok!21:54
heiko1blackburn, whats the problem21:54
heiko1blackburn, are you ok with merging the test framework when wiking finished the latest things?21:54
blackburnheiko1: sure21:54
blackburnheiko1: ok the problem is21:54
blackburnto declare what tasks you are working on21:54
blackburnI provide Task class21:54
blackburnwhich is basically indices vector21:55
blackburncurrently two task relations are supported21:55
blackburnTaskGroup and TaskTree21:55
blackburnjust consider it as set of Tasks(indices vectors)21:55
blackburnso the problem is how to handle all that sh with subsets21:56
heiko1k21:56
heiko1phew21:56
heiko1complicated21:56
gsomixsonney2k, ta dam!21:56
blackburnyeah it is21:56
@sonney2kwiking, hmmhh 1e-10 ? won't 1e-12 to 1e-15 work too?21:56
@sonney2kgsomix, ohh I like that sound :D21:57
heiko1blackburn, I still think that the only solution that would fit into current framework would be to create a new splitting strategy class which can handle all these index sets in the right way21:57
wikingsonney2k: did work...21:57
wikingtell me a number to put there and i'll put it there21:58
blackburnheiko1: no, it is even more complex22:00
blackburnheiko1: I think one solution22:01
blackburncould be22:01
blackburnto obtain real indices when training22:01
blackburni.e. to put only vectors that are in22:01
heiko1blackburn, so you need to know the result of the training before constructing indices?22:02
heiko1blackburn, afk 5 mins22:02
blackburnno, why22:02
blackburnexample22:02
blackburntasks are22:02
blackburn[0,1,2] [3,4,5]22:03
blackburnand subset is22:03
blackburn[0,1,4]22:03
blackburnso what can I come up with22:03
blackburnis to create vectors22:03
blackburn[0,1] [4]22:03
blackburnto describe these two tasks22:03
gsomixsonney2k, one moment. need update pr22:07
@sonney2kwiking, I think 1e-15 should be fine22:08
@sonney2kgsomix, k22:08
wikingsonney2k: fails...22:08
blackburnsonney2k: doesn't it depend on scale?22:08
wikingsonney2k: now it failed with the given random vector and using 10e-1222:08
@sonney2kwiking, how big are the numbers?22:20
@sonney2kwiking, can you check for *relative* precision?22:20
@sonney2ki.e. |a-b|/(a+b) < 1e-12 ...22:20
wikingok i dont get this...22:21
wikingsonney2k:  jsut a sec22:21
wikingSGVector<float64_t>::scale_vector(-1.0, a.vector, a.vlen);22:21
wikingEXPECT_EQ(sum, SGVector<float64_t>::sum_abs(a.vector, a.vlen));22:21
heiko1blackburn, re, sorry took longer since the shop-owner wanted to break his Ramadan with me :)22:21
@sonney2kwiking, or ensure that the randomly generated vector elements are all in range 0...122:21
wikingshould be the same as sum(a) before scaling22:21
wikingor?22:21
blackburnheiko1: what?? :D22:21
heiko1blackburn, yeah weird :D22:21
heiko1we got a muslim banladesh majority here22:22
heiko1brick land east london22:22
heiko1lane22:22
blackburnomg22:22
blackburnI thought it is a londongrad but it is a londonesh22:23
heiko1yeah22:23
heiko1especially here22:23
heiko1but it has advantages (free banlgadesh and indian food from time to time :)22:23
heiko1blackburn, I get now why you wanted to get the original indices22:24
heiko1you wanted to search them22:24
wikingdoh i dont get this shiiiaaat22:24
blackburnyeah something like that22:24
CIA-18shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * r35d423d / .gitignore : update git ignore to ignore only certain files/dirs in shogun/doc - http://git.io/4DbSiA22:24
CIA-18shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * rf606639 / (.gitmodules doc/tutorial): add doc/tutorial as submodule - http://git.io/ZL2iUw22:24
heiko1mmh, but thats actually not really sugsetting anymore22:24
heiko1cant you create a class22:24
heiko1that checks in which tasks an index is?22:25
heiko1like the other way round?22:25
heiko1and then build subsets from that22:25
wikingDOH I DONT GET IIIT!22:25
gsomixsonney2k, ufff, big, big example.22:25
wikingsonney2k heiko1 i've pushed the requested changes... check out the PR22:27
@sonney2kwiking, ? relative accuracy is just dividing by some number which is in the order of the scale of the data... but maybe it is better to just put the data on 'right' scale in this test22:27
wikingsonney2k: check the commit22:28
@sonney2kwiking, url?22:28
wikinghttps://github.com/vigsterkr/shogun/commit/ed46678a6abdef5945449e3621233d63cd269b0a22:28
shogun-buildbotbuild #97 of bsd1 - libshogun is complete: Failure [failed compile]  Build details are at http://www.shogun-toolbox.org/buildbot/builders/bsd1%20-%20libshogun/builds/97  blamelist: Soeren Sonnenburg <sonne@debian.org>22:29
@sonney2kwiking, which line?22:29
heiko1wiking, ok for me22:29
gsomixsonney2k, done22:31
gsomixsonney2k, sorry for one big commit. I'm stupid :(22:31
shogun-buildbotbuild #98 of bsd1 - libshogun is complete: Success [build successful]  Build details are at http://www.shogun-toolbox.org/buildbot/builders/bsd1%20-%20libshogun/builds/9822:32
@sonney2kgsomix, yes SATAN 666 :D22:33
@sonney2khttps://github.com/shogun-toolbox/shogun/pull/66622:35
@sonney2k*lolz*22:35
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@sonney2kgsomix, massiv patch22:39
gsomixuh :(22:39
@sonney2kgsomix, one thing - could you please in the example return the subsets (this is for the regression tests...)22:41
wikingsson it's L6622:42
wikingsonney2k: 6622:42
wikinghttps://github.com/vigsterkr/shogun/commit/ed46678a6abdef5945449e3621233d63cd269b0a#L0R6622:42
-!- blackburn [~blackburn@109.226.92.17] has joined #shogun22:46
@sonney2kwiking, just use a.random(0.0, 1.0); to get sane values22:47
@sonney2kwiking, though I am a bit surprised22:47
@sonney2k1024 is not that big...22:47
wikingsonney2k: ok i'll change it... let me know what u wanna do on the end with this... submodule or else...22:50
@sonney2kwiking, ok I am no longer surprised22:50
@sonney2kdouble mantissa is 52 bits22:50
@sonney2kso precision is about 1024**2*1.0/2**52 ~= 2e-1022:51
wikingi've gotta run out now... but going to be back later so i'll read the logs22:51
@sonney2kwiking, so use 1e-15 and 1.022:51
wikingsonney2k: okey22:51
@sonney2kwiking, ok cu22:51
droopycheers22:52
wikingsonney2k: i'll do that but now i've gotta run22:52
wikingbbl within 2 hours22:52
gsomixsonney2k, subsets?22:52
@sonney2kgsomix, what?22:52
@sonney2kahh22:52
@sonney2kslices22:52
@sonney2kyour somedenseshogunmatrix[:,3] etc stuff22:53
gsomixok, ok22:53
-!- heiko1 [~heiko@host86-177-114-238.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]22:54
gsomixsonney2k, done, it works, btw.22:54
gsomixneed to check ident problems22:55
@sonney2kgsomix, ok do that and then heiko or blackburn can merge23:10
@sonney2kI am off for today23:10
gsomixyay \o/23:10
gsomixsonney2k, cu23:10
@sonney2kgsomix, ahh btw - how much effort would it be to add this access support to SGVector/Matrix ?23:11
gsomixsonney2k, not many. just copy/paste macros for densefeatures23:12
blackburnsonney2k: why to do that?23:13
gsomixbut I think, I just should write more common macros23:14
gsomixblackburn, for DirectorClasses, I think23:15
@sonney2kblackburn, you mean beacause any sgvector etc instance is converted to numpy stuff?23:15
blackburnsounds complex23:15
@sonney2kyeah23:15
blackburnsonney2k: yeah exactly23:16
@sonney2kin directors we didn't have this23:16
@sonney2kbut a real 'sgvector' object23:16
@sonney2kand it might be nice to just say x+=y23:16
* gsomix hates ctrl+z23:16
@sonney2ketc23:16
gsomixcompiling...23:23
blackburnsonney2k: what is xx?23:23
blackburnah23:24
blackburnso in directors we have sgvector ok :)23:24
gsomixsonney2k, blackburn done23:31
gsomixahhh23:33
gsomixreturn23:33
gsomixblackburn, wait23:33
gsomix:23:33
CIA-18shogun: Soeren Sonnenburg master * rb2eabfc / (4 files in 3 dirs): Merge pull request #666 from gsomix/buffer_protocol (+5 more commits...) - http://git.io/V5a30w23:34
gsomixoops, ok, later23:34
gsomix:(23:34
--- Log closed Tue Jul 24 00:00:17 2012

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