IRC logs of #shogun for Wednesday, 2016-05-11

--- Log opened Wed May 11 00:00:51 2016
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lisitsyn	ENOUGH	01:50
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Saurabh7	CaBa, well if the cast fails it returns a null pointer, so its a check that it is not	06:11
Saurabh7	and since its a SGObject pointer we know nothing about it, for other we know its Base class type so we can use the members to check	06:34
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@wiking	CaBa: where's this?	09:27
@wiking	Saurabh7: hey here?	10:52
Saurabh7	wiking, hey sry was afk	11:13
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Saurabh7	HeikoS, hi !	11:15
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CaBa	wiking: in my fork	11:22
CaBa	Saurabh7: i see... i should probably implement it the same way then...	11:24
@wiking	Saurabh7: how's going with your preparations?	11:28
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@wiking	HeikoS: yo	11:37
@HeikoS	wiking: yoyo	11:49
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: hi!	11:49
Saurabh7	HeikoS, yo	11:59
Saurabh7	wiking, I had made a list of things, mailed it to HeikoS, i will forward it to you. it covers a many things, might have to tune it a bit.	12:00
Saurabh7	But basicaly i found big performance difference similar to Kmeans in few say decision trees id3 etc, clustering algo etc	12:01
Saurabh7	others its comparable but could be parallelized and improved i think	12:01
Saurabh7	like this issue wu pointed out in random forests	12:01
@HeikoS	great!	12:02
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: I was a bit busy recently, sorry	12:02
@HeikoS	but will read today or tomorrow and give feedback	12:02
Saurabh7	HeikoS, its almost same as in proposal but need to decide preferences and whats important maybe	12:03
Saurabh7	HeikoS, np :)	12:03
@HeikoS	yeah definitely	12:04
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: what you should do at this point in time is to investigate	12:04
@HeikoS	so document and explore as good as possible:	12:04
@HeikoS	1.) which algorithms are slow	12:05
@HeikoS	2.) how slow	12:05
@HeikoS	3.) in which setting they are slow	12:05
@HeikoS	4.) what might be the reason	12:05
@HeikoS	so this is purely exploring, but very explicitly	12:05
@HeikoS	the other thing is: try to create a priority list	12:05
@HeikoS	1.) algorithms which are very fundemental should have high priority	12:06
@HeikoS	2.) algorithms which are extremely slow should have high priority	12:06
@HeikoS	maybe you can order them according to that	12:06
Saurabh7	HeikoS, hm ok i will try to build up on this things already found and try to answer this points	12:06
Saurabh7	HeikoS, what about this feature view thing, it had been discussed long ago	12:07
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: basically, when gsoc starts, there should be no doubts on what to do	12:07
Saurabh7	it might be needed to paralllieze things like random forests	12:07
@HeikoS	so all decision making should happen now	12:07
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: that doesnt have priority, its more linalg/internals	12:07
@wiking	Saurabh7: okey just fwd the email plz	12:07
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: or do you need it anywhere?	12:08
Saurabh7	HeikoS, ok	12:08
Saurabh7	HeikoS, to parallelize some algos it might be needed	12:08
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: I recently played a bit more with cache locality, that is, read data from memory in sequential order, which can make a huge difference	12:08
Saurabh7	HeikoS, https://github.com/shogun-toolbox/shogun/issues/3182	12:08
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: you could think how that can be applied to shogun algos	12:08
@HeikoS	example for that: create a large matrix	12:09
Saurabh7	HeikoS, thats a new one i will look into it	12:09
@HeikoS	and iterate through all values of it (e.g. sum them up)	12:09
@HeikoS	then compare the performance of random order	12:09
@HeikoS	vs sequential order	12:09
@HeikoS	and you will find large differences	12:09
@HeikoS	if you understand this principle, then you can often gain a factor of 2 or even more	12:10
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: I sent an email with some pictures that illustrate it	12:10
@HeikoS	ok gotta run now, see you later	12:11
Saurabh7	sounds good i will look surely	12:11
Saurabh7	HeikoS, ok cya	12:11
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CaBa	I made my implementation of CParameterCombination::obtain_from_generic() to perform the same checks as CKernel::obtain_from_generic(). The casting function allows to iterate over parameter combinations from python, which currently didn't work as expected by the example in modelselection_parameter_tree_modular.py.	12:16
CaBa	Do you mind if I PR this?	12:16
@wiking	no	12:29
@wiking	go ahead!	12:29
@wiking	Saurabh7: email	12:29
@wiking	:)	12:29
Saurabh7	wiking, oops sent	12:34
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sanuj	why don't we have a gitter room	13:07
sanuj	it's better	13:07
sanuj	and everyone uses it	13:07
sanuj	torch, bvlc caffe	13:07
sanuj	openai gym	13:09
sanuj	scikit learn also	13:09
sanuj	i just remembered	13:11
sanuj	we had it	13:11
sanuj	https://gitter.im/shogun-toolbox/shogun	13:11
sanuj	besser82_: there?	13:14
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@wiking	sanuj: we have a gitter room	13:51
@wiking	but dont tell me that gitte ris better than irc :)	13:51
sanuj	haha	13:51
@wiking	it's like at least 25 years older and more mature/open protocol (irc)	13:52
sanuj	i see	13:52
@wiking	but we do have a gitter room	13:53
sanuj	i could only tell from the point of view of a user using it	13:53
sanuj	yeh i know	13:53
@wiking	there's less people in the gitter room :)	13:54
@wiking	sanuj: ah you wanna bet that there are 100x more people using irc	13:54
@wiking	than gitter ?:)	13:54
@wiking	at least	13:54
sanuj	yes definitely, more people use irc	13:54
sanuj	:D	13:55
@wiking	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1459	13:55
@wiking	:)	13:55
sanuj	the link is not opening here	13:57
sanuj	wiking: can you tell me how to get started with dynaplugz?	13:57
sanuj	we should have the plugin frame work ready and working before the coding period starts	13:59
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@wiking	sanuj: ok	14:01
@wiking	so we definitely want to have a shogun-base	14:01
sanuj	on github	14:04
sanuj	besser82_ said he will write the basic code required and then i can continue	14:04
sanuj	but the last commit is from march	14:04
Saurabh7	sanuj, ping	14:23
sanuj	Saurabh7: yo	14:23
Saurabh7	sanuj, did oyu get some call form fedex ?	14:24
sanuj	Saurabh7: nope	14:24
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Saurabh7	hm	14:25
sanuj	what about	14:25
sanuj	gsoc package?	14:25
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Saurabh7	ye did you get yours ?	14:26
sanuj	no i didn't anything	14:26
sanuj	did you get yours?	14:27
Saurabh7	stuck at customs :D i dunno tf that guy wanted,some forms	14:27
sanuj	oh	14:28
lisitsyn	oh good you remind me	14:35
lisitsyn	I should send my tshirt to sonney2k_	14:36
lisitsyn	sanuj: how's it going?	14:44
sanuj	lisitsyn: i got some easy c++ code working with swig to produce python bindings	14:45
sanuj	read about templates and classes	14:46
sanuj	need to write the interface for the tags prototype	14:46
lisitsyn	cool	14:46
lisitsyn	let me know if you need any help	14:46
sanuj	i want to start contributing to dynaplugz	14:46
sanuj	bjorn wanted to write the base code first	14:47
sanuj	besser82_: ping	14:47
sanuj	we should have a working plugin framework before the coding period begins	14:47
@wiking	sanuj:	14:48
sanuj	yes	14:49
@wiking	there are couple of things	14:49
lisitsyn	yeah but that's easy	14:49
@wiking	what we need to decide	14:49
lisitsyn	no need for mature library	14:49
@wiking	do we want like a new repo	14:49
@wiking	for all of these?	14:49
@wiking	but the other stuff is	14:50
@wiking	just to port in all the base classes, i.e. interfaces	14:50
@wiking	into one module	14:50
lisitsyn	I vote for adding new stuff to SGObject directly	14:50
@wiking	like/	14:51
@wiking	?	14:51
lisitsyn	wiking: get/set with tags	14:51
lisitsyn	and string-based get/set	14:51
@wiking	ah yeah	14:51
sanuj	i think we should have a separate repo where we migrate all the old shogun classes once we have the base-shogun ready	14:51
@wiking	mmm	14:51
@wiking	no	14:51
lisitsyn	that would be a mess	14:52
@wiking	that's for sure not a good idea :)	14:52
sanuj	and i think base-shogun should have dynamic plugin loading and whatever lisitsyn has added	14:52
sanuj	okay :)	14:52
@wiking	we should separate repos	14:52
@wiking	into different things	14:52
@wiking	like kernels	14:52
@wiking	features	14:52
@wiking	etc	14:52
@wiking	that way things are more traceable	14:52
@wiking	maybe	14:52
@wiking	:)	14:52
lisitsyn	not sure	14:52
@wiking	but we could do even more tricky stuff	14:52
@wiking	:)	14:52
sanuj	so you mean diff repo for kernel, diff repo for features and so on?	14:52
@wiking	either that	14:53
@wiking	or even go with 1 repo for all	14:53
lisitsyn	I am not a fan of splitting repos	14:53
lisitsyn	(I work for big company haha)	14:53
@wiking	and have things a bit differently partitions	14:53
@wiking	*partitioned	14:53
sanuj	haha	14:53
sanuj	will each repo be a plugin?	14:53
@wiking	nono	14:54
@wiking	meaning we have 1 repos	14:54
@wiking	*repo	14:54
@wiking	but there you simply just have a separate folder for each 'plugin'	14:54
lisitsyn	versioning stuff would be tough though	14:54
lisitsyn	tags won't work	14:54
lisitsyn	branches won't work	14:54
lisitsyn	wiking: I think we should tell our plugins from other plugins	14:55
lisitsyn	I mean it could be ok if we have a set of plugins synchronized with the main repo	14:55
@wiking	ah i see	14:55
lisitsyn	but not fancy impl of paper of HeikoS	14:55
@wiking	:>	14:55
@wiking	yeah we could do that as well	14:56
sanuj	haha	14:56
lisitsyn	then we can go with the 'plugins/' directory	14:56
@wiking	yeah	14:56
@wiking	but we definitely	14:56
sanuj	these will be the essential plugins installed with base shogun?	14:56
@wiking	need a separate repo	14:56
@wiking	for GPL stuff	14:56
lisitsyn	sanuj: yes, but not loaded by default	14:57
@wiking	yeah by default nothing is loaded	14:57
@wiking	but yeah we should define	14:57
@wiking	the whole shogun-base	14:57
sanuj	lisitsyn: loaded when only called from python or equivalent	14:57
@wiking	that is the base fw	14:57
@wiking	or from c++	14:57
sanuj	how do i go from dynaplugz to shogun-base?	14:59
@wiking	mmm	14:59
@wiking	so first you have the interfaces	15:00
@wiking	and sgobject needs to be extended	15:00
@wiking	to support tags	15:00
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sanuj	just to be clear, interfaces are swig interfaces right?	15:01
@wiking	no	15:01
sanuj	oh	15:02
@wiking	interfaces are the abstract classes in shogun codebase	15:02
sanuj	okay	15:02
@wiking	interface = java semantics	15:02
sanuj	i see	15:02
sanuj	so extended sgobject and all abstract classes	15:03
@wiking	mmm	15:03
@wiking	have you checked shogun's code?	15:03
@wiking	i mean like CKernel	15:03
@wiking	and CFeatures	15:03
sanuj	not in detail	15:03
@wiking	are all derived from SGObject	15:03
sanuj	yes	15:04
sanuj	i know that	15:04
sanuj	everything is derived from sgobject	15:04
@wiking	not really	15:04
@wiking	:)	15:04
@wiking	but most of the things	15:04
sanuj	okay	15:04
sanuj	:)	15:04
@wiking	so please	15:04
@wiking	start looking at shogun's code in detail	15:05
@wiking	and for example	15:05
@wiking	let's put a list together	15:05
sanuj	yes sir :D	15:05
@wiking	which classes shoudl be in that	15:05
lisitsyn	yeah there must be a list	15:05
lisitsyn	which interfaces are core	15:06
@wiking	indeed	15:06
@wiking	sanuj: maybe start a gdocs	15:06
@wiking	and share it	15:06
sanuj	okay	15:06
@wiking	so we can discuss this easier	15:06
lisitsyn	yeah whatever way	15:06
lisitsyn	I can deffs say	15:06
lisitsyn	CDotFeatures, CFeatures, CKernel, CDistance, ...	15:06
@wiking	yep	15:06
@wiking	CMachine	15:06
lisitsyn	but there are some cases	15:06
lisitsyn	not that easy cases ;P	15:07
@wiking	yeh maybe some refacts will be required	15:07
@wiking	but anyhow	15:07
@wiking	let's have a list	15:07
@wiking	about which we can start discussing	15:07
lisitsyn	wiking: sanuj: it could be a list of exports for swig	15:07
@wiking	yep	15:07
lisitsyn	renames	15:07
@wiking	sanuj: check how the renames are done	15:08
@wiking	within current shogun	15:08
@wiking	for swig	15:08
sanuj	i saw in the shogun code	15:08
@wiking	so in that format	15:08
@wiking	lets have a list	15:08
@wiking	:)	15:08
sanuj	for templates	15:08
@wiking	not only	15:08
@wiking	it's for all classes	15:08
sanuj	yes	15:08
@wiking	that are exposed for swig interfaces	15:08
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sanuj	wiking: gmail id	15:12
@wiking	vigsterkr	15:13
sanuj	wiking: lisitsyn https://docs.google.com/document/d/15oCKKYJwvdHSxA8ohq6f4EOsJwfu-gxKhRLj3sj6cuM/edit?usp=sharing	15:14
lisitsyn	yeah let's just not lose the link :D	15:16
@wiking	:>	15:17
sanuj	do we want a gist	15:18
@wiking	if you write code	15:19
@wiking	then yes	15:19
sanuj	wiking: but how will multiple people edit it?	15:23
sanuj	i'm talking about github gist	15:23
@wiking	eveyr gist is a repo essentially	15:25
sanuj	wiking: lisitsyn https://gist.github.com/sanuj/56f03cd242473137fad851e68fa0f2c1	15:26
@wiking	md?	15:27
lisitsyn	lol	15:27
@wiking	arent' we writing a .i file? :)	15:27
lisitsyn	that's ok	15:27
@wiking	anyhooooooooooooow	15:27
@wiking	lets' just do it	15:27
lisitsyn	wiking: we can ``` ```	15:27
@wiking	``````````````````````````````	15:27
@wiking	``````````````````	15:27
@wiking	:>	15:27
@wiking	^ can	15:27
lisitsyn	```````	15:27
sanuj	i'll rename it	15:27
sanuj	:)	15:28
sanuj	done	15:29
sanuj	how does it work with gists	15:32
sanuj	i don't think there are PRs	15:32
lisitsyn	no why	15:33
lisitsyn	sanuj:	15:33
lisitsyn	you just edit it	15:33
lisitsyn	and we comment	15:33
lisitsyn	I think you can give us access if necessary	15:33
sanuj	no access thingy here	15:34
lisitsyn	nah nevermind then	15:34
lisitsyn	ok commented	15:36
Saurabh7	lord	15:57
CaBa	sanuj: you are from assam? :)	16:40
sanuj	CaBa: i study in assam :D	16:40
sanuj	but i'm from Jaipur	16:40
CaBa	sanuj: ah, i see	16:43
sanuj	CaBa: are you from india?	16:45
CaBa	sanuj: nope, i'm from germany. assam just raised my attention since i just recently became aware of the seven sister states when i travelled myanmar	16:47
CaBa	sanuj: kinda embarassing but that part of india wasn't in my brain world map before :)	16:48
sanuj	CaBa: oh i see :)	16:48
CaBa	sanuj: from india i've only seen the very south so far, mostly tamil nadu	16:49
CaBa	there might be an opportunity to see the north this year though :)	16:49
sanuj	great!	16:50
sanuj	ironically i have never been to tamil nadu	16:51
sanuj	have some friends there	16:51
sanuj	most southern part that i have visited is Mumbai	16:51
sanuj	CaBa: roamed around a lot in north though	16:52
CaBa	:D	16:53
CaBa	totally on the todo list	16:53
CaBa	i'm also somewhat curious about bhutan	16:54
Saurabh7	you guys should visit Goa :D	17:00
sanuj	haha	17:02
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OXPHOS	Im late for the party : (	17:05
@wiking	:)	17:07
@wiking	what party	17:07
@wiking	goa party?	17:07
CaBa	Saurabh7: not that much into party tourism ;)	17:08
Saurabh7	CaBa, ah i see :)	17:09
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travis-ci	it's lambday's turn to pay the next round of drinks for the massacre he caused in shogun-toolbox/shogun: https://travis-ci.org/shogun-toolbox/shogun/builds/129440847	17:09
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OXPHOS	wiking: fancier one.. saw the irc log. Lots of people around : )	17:11
lisitsyn	you should visit moskva!	17:13
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CaBa	lisitsyn: :D	17:18
sanuj	lisitsyn: you got back your vowels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	17:18
Saurabh7	davai moskva	17:18
sanuj	i need to train a model now which requires all of my laptop's ram	17:23
sanuj	so goodbye chrome :P	17:23
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@wiking	sanuj: for the (irc) record: use irsii or bitchx ;)	17:35
@wiking	lisitsyn: who's your client? :D	17:35
lisitsyn	wiking: irssi over znc	17:36
@wiking	yep	17:42
@wiking	i wanna try again bitchx :)	17:43
@wiking	i really liked that client	17:43
@wiking	:	17:43
@wiking	:	17:43
@wiking	:	17:43
@wiking	:>	17:43
lisitsyn	BitchX is the most popular IRC client among Unix systems. You can also use it on Windows, but if you had a Picasso painting, would you put it in the bathroom?	17:50
@wiking	:)	17:50
CaBa	wiking: did you... just recommend bitchx?!	17:53
@wiking	best client ever	17:53
@wiking	why	17:53
@wiking	?	17:53
CaBa	interesting... where i come from it's considered worse than mIRC ^^	17:54
@wiking	mirc fuck	17:54
@wiking	that is a piece of fucking shit	17:54
CaBa	does bitchx still do this terrible bold type thing?	17:55
CaBa	wiking: yes. that's why i mentioned it to illustrate bitchx's reputation ^^	17:55
@wiking	so what's a good client for you? :)	17:56
CaBa	irssi of course	17:56
@wiking	:D	17:56
CaBa	i didn't know there was another opinion!	17:56
CaBa	does emacs exist? ;)	17:56
@wiking	yeah	17:56
OXPHOS	I don't want to rush you guys..but it would be nice if someone can take a look at my proposal? @ wiking, HeiKoS : )	17:57
lisitsyn	which?	17:57
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: hey hey :)	17:59
@HeikoS	sorry I was so busy recently	17:59
@wiking	oh	17:59
@HeikoS	but its better soon	17:59
@wiking	but wait	17:59
@wiking	where's the proposal :D	18:00
OXPHOS	lisitsyn: Assuming you're talking to me..The Detox Project. I currently only shared with the assigned mentors but I'd love to have you look at it. Though I think I'll harass you with cookbook problem : )	18:00
@wiking	:DDDDDDDDDDDDDD	18:00
@wiking	ah	18:00
@wiking	lemme see again	18:00
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: looking at it now	18:00
OXPHOS	wiking: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eozTFX_mgKx3eXQfQnP07Rxi8GYKfGYdu_qvGpLRnjw/edit?usp=sharing	18:00
lisitsyn	OXPHOS: please ping me anytime but I could be drunk and fail to respond	18:00
lisitsyn	OXPHOS: have you seen my 'Some' class?	18:01
OXPHOS	HeikoS: Thx! No rush. Just want to make sure I can get everything done on time.	18:01
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: you are right	18:01
@HeikoS	can you point me on something that we should start with discussing?	18:01
@HeikoS	for linalg, lambday and wiking had a discussion	18:01
OXPHOS	lisitsyn: Nope sorry. where is it?	18:02
@HeikoS	we need some decisions there	18:02
lisitsyn	OXPHOS: shogun/base/some.h IIRC	18:02
@HeikoS	the design goals are: we want to be able to switch at runtime (not compile time), while we want to avoid too much overhead in the method calls	18:02
OXPHOS	HeikoS: Yes I guess people have different ideas	18:02
lisitsyn	tensorflow	18:02
lisitsyn	:D	18:03
@HeikoS	lisitsyn: noooo	18:03
lisitsyn	YYY	18:03
@wiking	TENSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORFLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW	18:03
@wiking	:D	18:03
@wiking	floooooooooooow	18:03
@wiking	man	18:03
@wiking	i'm tired of deep neural nets	18:03
@wiking	:)	18:03
lisitsyn	seriously why not haha	18:03
@wiking	lets do something else	18:03
@HeikoS	because we can't	18:03
@HeikoS	need python to use it	18:03
@wiking	we cant what?	18:03
lisitsyn	??	18:03
@HeikoS	use tensorflow	18:03
@wiking	they use swig	18:03
lisitsyn	no	18:03
lisitsyn	das ist not korrekt	18:03
@wiking	its eigen + c++	18:03
lisitsyn	yesz	18:03
@HeikoS	no	18:03
@wiking	what no?	18:03
lisitsyn	it is	18:04
@HeikoS	cannot build computation graphs from C++	18:04
@HeikoS	only execute	18:04
@HeikoS	so you have to build the graphs in python	18:04
@HeikoS	export	18:04
@HeikoS	then execute with c++	18:04
@wiking	eh shitfuckers	18:04
@wiking	:)	18:04
lisitsyn	https://github.com/tensorflow/tensorflow/tree/master/tensorflow/core	18:04
lisitsyn	really?	18:04
@HeikoS	yes	18:04
lisitsyn	but we don't need graphs	18:04
@HeikoS	otherwise I would have done a project on that ;)	18:04
lisitsyn	we need tensors	18:04
@wiking	OXPHOS: so i added an idea	18:04
@HeikoS	graphs as in computation description	18:04
OXPHOS	lisitsyn: Lemme check. Wondering why other people can compile successfully. Thx!	18:04
@wiking	anyhow	18:04
@HeikoS	wiking: you still owe us this mail about the linalg design	18:04
@wiking	fuck deep nets	18:04
lisitsyn	DEEP NETS	18:05
@wiking	HeikoS: i've replied	18:05
@wiking	:)	18:05
@HeikoS	ah really	18:05
@wiking	yep	18:05
@HeikoS	sorry didnt see yet	18:05
@HeikoS	checking	18:05
@wiking	but yeah i should explain that more afaik	18:05
@wiking	*imo	18:05
OXPHOS	wiking: thx. sorry I forgot to mention page 3-4 are new stuff	18:05
@HeikoS	virtual functions llama?	18:05
@wiking	HeikoS: yeah	18:05
@wiking	OXPHOS: ok checking bassza meg	18:06
@wiking	:)	18:06
@HeikoS	wiking: ok read it	18:06
@HeikoS	what do we do with OXPHOS?	18:06
@HeikoS	in terms of linalg	18:06
@HeikoS	wiking: I am just discussing with rahul here	18:10
@HeikoS	so lets say linalg is a plugin	18:10
@HeikoS	then signature need to use SGMatrix etc	18:10
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: you follow as well?	18:10
@HeikoS	lisitsyn: ^	18:10
-!- lambday [8028b10a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.128.40.177.10] has joined #shogun		18:10
-!- mode/#shogun [+o lambday] by ChanServ		18:10
@lambday	wiking: lisitsyn: yo!	18:11
@HeikoS	but if this is the case, then how to we avoid that data is transferred to GPU in every call on viennaCL things	18:11
@wiking	lambday: hola	18:11
@wiking	HeikoS: w8	18:11
@HeikoS	sitting next to each other btw 8-)	18:11
@wiking	i'm currently commending on the doc	18:11
@wiking	*commenting	18:11
@HeikoS	ah ok	18:11
@wiking	gimme 5 more mins	18:11
@HeikoS	cool sure	18:11
@lambday	wiking: yeah me and Heiko were discussing about the interface that the linalg plugin shoudl provide!	18:11
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: ok so linalg needs a bit discussion	18:12
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: lets talk about serialization	18:12
@HeikoS	while wiking comments	18:12
OXPHOS	HeikoS: Sure	18:12
@HeikoS	what we need for that is a working prototype to start with	18:12
@HeikoS	you mentioned you had 2 ideas	18:13
OXPHOS	HeikoS: Ah you mean the code	18:13
@HeikoS	I mean we need something that cerealises an existing shogun class	18:14
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: can you ellaborate a bit on your proposal?	18:15
OXPHOS	HeikoS: Thought I'll start that when I'm reaching that part	18:16
OXPHOS	So now the parameters need to be saved are added via SG_ADD	18:16
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: I think it would be great to write a minimal example that is self contained	18:16
@wiking	ok i think i'm done	18:16
@wiking	OXPHOS: i second HeikoS idea	18:17
@wiking	and the same should be done for shared_ptr	18:17
@wiking	(see my commment in your doc)	18:17
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: it doesnt need to be embedded into shogun fore now	18:17
@wiking	++	18:17
@HeikoS	but illustrate the technical problems and how then can be solved	18:18
@HeikoS	so create a fake shogun class	18:18
@HeikoS	and code that uses cereal	18:18
@HeikoS	really important to do this stuff relatively early	18:18
@wiking	arianepaola: we have a possible starter for pipy... do you want to further work on that for the time being?	18:18
@wiking	it should be straight forward to fix and finish it	18:18
OXPHOS	HeikoS, wiking: so like an independent test case, but looks like a shogun one?	18:19
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: exactly	18:19
@wiking	yep yep	18:19
OXPHOS	okay got it	18:19
@wiking	should be really striaghtforward	18:19
OXPHOS	yes	18:19
@wiking	and the hdf5 thing i would really leave it	18:20
@wiking	when you have time	18:20
@wiking	and forget asccii output	18:20
@wiking	so the default cereal output formats	18:20
OXPHOS	haha okay. This would make thins easier	18:20
@wiking	are good... and if you have remaining time you can do those	18:20
OXPHOS	*things	18:20
@wiking	yep yep	18:20
@wiking	it's just better to have the whole serialization working	18:21
@wiking	with cereal	18:21
@HeikoS	wiking: so about the linalg	18:21
OXPHOS	sure	18:21
@HeikoS	so lets say it is a plugin	18:21
@HeikoS	and all the methods take SG* as input	18:21
@HeikoS	good?	18:21
@wiking	yep	18:21
@HeikoS	ok then we have a few cases	18:22
@HeikoS	1.) all is CPU, that is easy as it is as things are now	18:22
@HeikoS	2.) I explicitly want to run a linalg operation on GPU	18:22
@HeikoS	how would that work?	18:22
@wiking	ok so if you want to have gpu linalg	18:22
@HeikoS	we can create a GPUMatrix in Shogun code, and then wrap a SGMatrix around it, and pass it to linalg	18:22
@wiking	you set your new linalg backend	18:23
@HeikoS	or does every call to gpu linalg transfer data?	18:23
@wiking	(a plugin)	18:23
@HeikoS	I see	18:23
@wiking	that'll load all the shit in	18:23
@HeikoS	when does the data transfer happen?	18:23
@HeikoS	in every call?	18:23
@wiking	nono	18:23
@wiking	you transfer it once	18:23
@HeikoS	ok	18:23
@wiking	why would you transfer it back an forth	18:23
@HeikoS	so there is like a method for that?	18:23
@HeikoS	agreed, .... how does it look like	18:24
@HeikoS	since the method iterface is SGMatrix	18:24
@wiking	you can have a static code for that	18:24
@wiking	transfer to gpu	18:24
@wiking	transfer to cpu	18:24
@wiking	that function returns you an object	18:24
@wiking	that has reference on the data	18:24
@HeikoS	say we have big matrix	18:24
@wiking	in question	18:24
@wiking	i mean if you know that you wanna use a gpu	18:25
@wiking	then you would get that to gpu as soon as possible	18:25
@wiking	(possibly when you load in the data)	18:25
@wiking	but if that's not possible	18:25
@wiking	you'll have to do it at some point	18:25
@HeikoS	so what if no GPU is available	18:25
@HeikoS	and therefore the plugin	18:25
@HeikoS	what happens?	18:25
@wiking	you can have the plugin	18:26
@HeikoS	inside shogun code	18:26
@wiking	but when you load in the plugin	18:26
@wiking	you should have an assert/warning	18:26
@wiking	whatever	18:26
@HeikoS	ok so runtime error	18:26
@wiking	that it cannot be used	18:26
@HeikoS	no fallback	18:26
@wiking	and then you can fallback	18:26
@wiking	why cant you	18:26
@HeikoS	ok if we do a fallback	18:26
@wiking	i mean say you have a linalg interface	18:26
@wiking	that will have a default value	18:26
@wiking	right	18:26
@HeikoS	then I am confused how the signatures would look like	18:26
@wiking	so i would say that our default linalg backend is	18:27
@wiking	eigen based	18:27
@wiking	but that's still a plugin	18:27
@wiking	but a plugin that is required	18:27
@HeikoS	Isnt this very similar to the existing proposal?	18:27
@HeikoS	just that it is a plugin	18:27
@wiking	which proposal?	18:27
@wiking	i mean there was a proposal	18:27
@wiking	that a) compile 2 different shoguns	18:28
@wiking	b) transfer data between cpu-gpu all the time	18:28
@wiking	:)	18:28
@HeikoS	no we dont want both of that	18:28
@wiking	i mean i dont see any of these being what i'm talking about	18:28
@wiking	i know	18:28
@wiking	they are xor	18:28
@wiking	anyhow	18:28
@wiking	so you have a backend registered	18:28
@HeikoS	rahul asks what the base class is for both of the matrix classes	18:28
@HeikoS	for the runtime fallback	18:29
@wiking	what do you mean by runtime fallback for matrix clas?	18:29
@HeikoS	because the static methods take GPUMatrix	18:29
@HeikoS	so if no GPU is available	18:29
@HeikoS	you said we do fallback to the eigen3 linalg	18:29
@wiking	you wont be able to get GPUMatrix	18:29
@wiking	right?	18:29
@HeikoS	exactly	18:29
@wiking	how do you get a GPUMatrix object	18:29
@wiking	if you dont have a GPUMatrix	18:29
@wiking	i mean	18:29
@HeikoS	so the code does not run then?	18:29
@wiking	GPU matrix	18:29
@HeikoS	that is, the GPU implementations will not work if there is not GPU?	18:30
@HeikoS	no fallback to CPU?	18:30
@wiking	it could	18:30
@HeikoS	mmh	18:30
@HeikoS	how?	18:30
@wiking	you can still have	18:30
@wiking	the reference to be a noop	18:30
@wiking	right?	18:30
@wiking	*NOP	18:30
@HeikoS	not sure I understand	18:31
@wiking	i mean say you have a	18:31
@wiking	SGMatrix	18:31
@wiking	and say you have an implementation of a special algo X	18:31
@wiking	and that algo x is written in	18:31
@wiking	using GPU code	18:31
@wiking	right?	18:31
@HeikoS	ok	18:31
@wiking	so you'll have a transfer function	18:31
@wiking	of the SGMatrix -> GPUMatrix	18:31
@wiking	right?	18:31
@HeikoS	ok	18:32
@HeikoS	that is static	18:32
@wiking	whatever	18:32
@HeikoS	kk	18:32
@wiking	somebody will do it for you	18:32
@wiking	somehow	18:32
@wiking	it just represents that the data is on the gpu end	18:32
@wiking	*memory	18:32
@wiking	if you have a GPU that will actually do the transfer	18:32
@wiking	but if you dont why cannot that be a NOP?	18:33
@wiking	it's a bit ugly	18:33
@wiking	but will work	18:33
@HeikoS	so that means: runtime error?	18:33
@wiking	no	18:33
@wiking	it's a no operation	18:33
@wiking	you dont do anything with the matrix	18:33
@wiking	no transfer	18:33
@HeikoS	so it just ignores	18:34
@wiking	just wrap it into GPUMatrix	18:34
@HeikoS	the call	18:34
@wiking	and you can continue with the whole thing	18:34
@HeikoS	so the GPU matrix is still CPU matrix on the computer	18:34
@wiking	gpumatrix's data will still reside on the cpu	18:34
@HeikoS	I get it now	18:34
@HeikoS	I see now	18:35
@wiking	only shitty part is	18:35
@HeikoS	so this means we have to heavily modify GPUMatrix	18:35
@HeikoS	but ok	18:35
@wiking	i mean	18:35
@wiking	we could i believe	18:35
@wiking	maaaybe	18:35
@wiking	learn some or more	18:35
@wiking	from magma	18:35
@wiking	i hope they have a nicer way to do this	18:35
@wiking	never really checked the code	18:35
@HeikoS	wiking: I think this NOP thing is ok	18:35
@wiking	but who knows	18:35
@wiking	it's ugly a bit	18:36
@HeikoS	wiking: I mean in reality	18:36
@HeikoS	GPU algorithms will be slow as f*** on CPU	18:36
OXPHOS	Naive idea: cmake detects whether GPU is available/GPU is enabled and generate a FLAG?	18:36
@HeikoS	and one needs alternative implementation if one wants to change back and forth	18:36
@wiking	in former times opencv had the similar way	18:36
OXPHOS	Then do everything in GPU if FLAG=true?	18:36
@wiking	dunno if they have now a better way to do this	18:36
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: yes something like this	18:37
@HeikoS	wiking, OXPHOS, lambday so let me summarise	18:37
@HeikoS	1.) linalg will become a plugin (not part of OXPHOS work for now, but sanuj)	18:37
@HeikoS	2.) all methods will be virtual and use SGMatrix SGVector in signatures	18:37
@wiking	huh fuck	18:38
@wiking	opencv's interface is really shit	18:38
@wiking	:)	18:38
@wiking	it got worse than it was	18:38
@wiking	2) actually no virtual	18:38
@wiking	:)))	18:38
@HeikoS	3.) there will be some kind of factory which one can ask to transfer data back and forth to GPU that takes and returns GPUMAtrix type	18:38
@wiking	you can actually avoid using virtual	18:38
@wiking	and when you register the backend	18:38
@wiking	you register your function pointers	18:38
@HeikoS	3.) ok no virtual, just overloaded	18:38
@HeikoS	ah I see	18:39
@HeikoS	ok	18:39
@wiking	so this way you can avoid the virtual function overhead	18:39
@wiking	and btw	18:39
@HeikoS	4.) transfer to GPU is an empty function in case the gpu linalg is not available	18:39
@wiking	we should really do something about Features->dot ;)	18:39
@HeikoS	wiking: yep :)	18:39
@HeikoS	and we should profile cache misses in shogun	18:39
@HeikoS	but OK	18:39
@HeikoS	OXPHOS:	18:39
@HeikoS	that is your summary for linalg	18:39
@wiking	HeikoS: yeah i did some changes for false cache stuff	18:39
@HeikoS	a prototype would be nice here as well	18:39
@HeikoS	since it helps for facilitationg these discussions	18:40
@HeikoS	wiking: cool	18:40
OXPHOS	got it.	18:40
@HeikoS	wiking: we had some 8x factor speedups in MMD tests here via doing this properly	18:40
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: same here, make a minimal standalone prototype	18:40
@HeikoS	that has all important things we mentioned	18:40
@HeikoS	and that compiles/runs	18:40
@HeikoS	just need to put a single operation	18:40
@wiking	HeikoS: you mean that you dont use virtual functions everywhere ;P	18:41
@HeikoS	wiking: nono, sweeping through data sequentially	18:41
@wiking	ah yeah	18:41
@HeikoS	wiking: BTW, this way of linalg doesnt requires it to be a plugin	18:41
@wiking	pipeline cache	18:41
@HeikoS	it could be part of base	18:41
@HeikoS	but not sure what we do there	18:41
@wiking	you mean the interface?	18:41
@wiking	i mean Linalg	18:42
@wiking	should be there in base	18:42
@wiking	but it's just the class	18:42
@wiking	where you can register	18:42
@wiking	the actual linalg backend	18:42
@wiking	etc	18:42
@HeikoS	wiking: another question	18:42
@HeikoS	so you do the transfer call to GPU, and you get a GPUMatrix	18:43
@HeikoS	no matter whether it happened or not, but you get the type	18:43
@HeikoS	then you want to call linalg method	18:43
@HeikoS	and then linalg methods are overloaded for both CPU/GPUMatrix?	18:43
@HeikoS	so compile time determined?	18:43
@wiking	that's why i said it's a bit ugly	18:44
@HeikoS	but then what about this thing:	18:44
@HeikoS	I have no GPU	18:44
@HeikoS	I do the transfer call	18:44
@HeikoS	I get GPUMatrix that lives in main memory	18:44
@HeikoS	I pass it to linalg::dot( ... )	18:44
@HeikoS	what happens inside there?	18:44
@HeikoS	it fails?	18:45
@wiking	nono	18:45
@wiking	it should never fail	18:45
@wiking	it should seemless do the operation	18:45
@HeikoS	but if the type is static	18:45
@wiking	:)	18:45
@HeikoS	how would the fallback work?	18:45
@HeikoS	since I definitely pass GPUMAtrix	18:45
@wiking	i mena here is the shit part	18:45
@wiking	there are couple of way around	18:45
@HeikoS	the plugin falls back inside?	18:45
@HeikoS	as in	18:45
@wiking	if you know your backend doesn't support	18:45
@wiking	GPUMatrix	18:46
@wiking	you can do a transfer back	18:46
@wiking	to SGMatrix	18:46
@HeikoS	if (GPUMatrix.is_cpu) { cpu_linalg::fot( )))	18:46
@HeikoS	inside linalg::dot() ?	18:46
@wiking	which in case that was a GPUMatrix where data is in main memory	18:46
@wiking	again a noop	18:46
@wiking	*nop	18:46
@HeikoS	where does this happen?	18:46
@HeikoS	inside the gpu linalg method?	18:46
@wiking	you dont have gpu or cpu linalg method	18:47
@wiking	you just have linalg:dot	18:47
@HeikoS	so the interface then is?	18:47
@HeikoS	GPUMatrix m	18:47
@wiking	and now i'm thinking	18:47
@HeikoS	transfer_to_gpu(m)	18:47
@wiking	do we really need	18:47
@wiking	the distinguishing part	18:47
@HeikoS	this is weird	18:47
@wiking	of CPU/GPU	18:47
@HeikoS	wait	18:47
@HeikoS	let me first understand this	18:48
@wiking	i mean it will work	18:48
@wiking	but too much unnecessary wrapping	18:48
@HeikoS	argh	18:48
@HeikoS	firealarm	18:48
@wiking	that's why i'm pivoting the idea	18:48
@wiking	:)))))))))))	18:48
@HeikoS	haha	18:48
@wiking	exam period?	18:48
@HeikoS	ah its turned off again	18:48
@HeikoS	test	18:48
@HeikoS	hahahaha	18:48
@wiking	so the thing is that you can do these transfer back and forth	18:48
@wiking	that is a nop	18:48
@HeikoS	so when is the conversion of GPUMatrix->SGMatrix happening?	18:48
@wiking	but then it's a bit of an overhead	18:48
@HeikoS	before I call linalg::foo?	18:49
@wiking	if the GPUMatrix was actually	18:49
@wiking	represented in main memory?	18:49
@wiking	it's a nop right?	18:49
@HeikoS	yes	18:49
@wiking	and you do that in the call	18:49
@HeikoS	but the type I get is GPUMatrix	18:49
@wiking	say it's a dot product	18:49
@HeikoS	but linalg::foo needs SGMatrix	18:49
@wiking	you are now talking about the actual implementaiton	18:49
@wiking	not the interface you'd be calling right?	18:49
@HeikoS	no just kind of the API	18:50
@HeikoS	and what is happening	18:50
@wiking	yeah but fuck	18:50
@HeikoS	on high level	18:50
@wiking	linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:50
@wiking	linalg::foo(GPUMatrix)	18:50
@wiking	right?	18:50
@HeikoS	ok	18:50
@wiking	and depending on your backend	18:50
@wiking	one or the other is supported	18:50
@wiking	or?	18:50
@wiking	i mean what do you do	18:50
@wiking	when you call	18:50
@HeikoS	what happens in linalg::foo(GPUMatrix) if the transfer was nop?	18:50
@wiking	linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:50
@wiking	on a GPU linalg backend?	18:50
@HeikoS	sure	18:50
@wiking	will you do the transfer of SGMatrix -> GPUMatrix	18:51
@wiking	do the foo(GPUMatrix)	18:51
@wiking	then do the GPUMatrix -> SGMatrix and return?	18:51
@wiking	from linalg::foo(GPUMatrix)	18:51
@wiking	?	18:51
@wiking	i mean in some way it's the same problem	18:51
@HeikoS	nono I was just confused	18:51
@wiking	no what i mean now	18:52
@HeikoS	but my question still is what how the fallback works	18:52
@wiking	what do you do in this case really?	18:52
@wiking	yeah but fuck	18:52
@wiking	it's the same problem	18:52
@HeikoS	when linalg::foo(GPUMatrix) is called	18:52
@wiking	ok so you have a linalg::foo(GPUMatrix)	18:52
@wiking	and you backend is actually cpu	18:52
@wiking	then you will do a NOP GPUMatrix -> SGMatrix	18:52
@wiking	call linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:53
@HeikoS	inside the foo method?	18:53
@wiking	yes	18:53
@wiking	as you can see this is the same problem	18:53
@wiking	as i've mentioned about	18:53
@wiking	GPU backend getting SGMatrix	18:53
@wiking	and there	18:53
@wiking	the bigger question is	18:53
@wiking	what is your backend	18:53
@wiking	and how do you have a reference on that?	18:53
@HeikoS	mmh this fallback inside each method of linalg seems a bit strange to me	18:54
@wiking	ok so lets take the other problem	18:54
@wiking	the one above	18:54
@wiking	GPU backend	18:54
@wiking	and you have a GPU	18:54
@wiking	and you regitered the linalg backend to be GPU	18:54
@wiking	did you imagine to runtimeexception	18:54
@wiking	when you call linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:55
@wiking	?	18:55
@HeikoS	no	18:55
@HeikoS	that should work	18:55
@HeikoS	as I dont want everything to be GPU	18:55
@HeikoS	right?	18:55
@wiking	yeah	18:55
@HeikoS	what if the transfer_to_gpu actually returned SGMatrix if GPU was not available, and then we use auto as type as pass it to linalg::foo, which then gets linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:55
@wiking	but how will it work?	18:55
@wiking	i mean you'v just regitered your linalg backend to be GPU	18:55
@wiking	how will then your SGMatrix linalg method still work?	18:56
@wiking	which bakcend will you use?	18:56
@HeikoS	I see	18:56
@HeikoS	no only selected calls should be GPIU	18:56
@wiking	so you say	18:56
@wiking	linalg is ALWAYS cpu	18:56
@wiking	and then you can choose some functions to be working	18:56
@wiking	as gpu	18:56
@wiking	if you register them?	18:56
@wiking	otherwise you expect that to still work	18:57
@HeikoS	yes I think so	18:57
@wiking	with cpu?	18:57
@HeikoS	yes if GPU is not available	18:57
@wiking	ok cool	18:57
@wiking	then i would just stop	18:57
@wiking	having gpumatrix	18:57
@wiking	:)	18:57
@HeikoS	and do everything inside SGMatrix	18:57
@wiking	yes	18:57
@wiking	and then do the transfer	18:57
@wiking	by hand in the algo	18:58
@wiking	if there's gpu backend	18:58
@HeikoS	yes	18:58
@wiking	and then you call the fucking thind	18:58
@HeikoS	since the transfer is expensive	18:58
@HeikoS	we want to be explicit	18:58
@wiking	and then it'll work either with the gpu	18:58
@wiking	backed one	18:58
@wiking	or just the simple one	18:58
@HeikoS	yes	18:58
@wiking	if no gpu	18:58
@wiking	i think this is cleaner	18:58
@wiking	because then you dont need	18:59
@wiking	linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:59
@wiking	linalg::foo(GPUMatrix)	18:59
@wiking	just linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	18:59
@wiking	and you can have like SGMatrix.onGPU()	18:59
@wiking	and if it's on gpu then you call the gpu backend	18:59
@wiking	otherwise fallback	18:59
@HeikoS	yes	18:59
@wiking	good?	19:00
OXPHOS	: )	19:00
@HeikoS	so we dont have two plugins	19:00
@HeikoS	so if I call linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	19:01
@wiking	no you still have a plugin	19:01
@HeikoS	inside that method, it check SGMatrix::onGPU()	19:01
@wiking	GPU plugin	19:01
@wiking	i mean that you register	19:01
@HeikoS	and then calls the corresponding thing	19:01
@wiking	i mean that's a plugin	19:01
@wiking	you can have it available	19:01
@HeikoS	yeah ok	19:01
@HeikoS	so still plugins	19:02
@wiking	yeah yeah	19:02
@wiking	dont want to statically compile it	19:02
@wiking	but yeah	19:02
@wiking	you make it sure that its regitered	19:02
@wiking	and say	19:02
@wiking	if you have	19:02
@wiking	linalg::foo(SGMatrix)	19:02
@wiking	where SGMatrix::onGPU() = True	19:02
@wiking	but you didn't register a GPU backend	19:02
@wiking	then you throw a big motherfucking runtime exception	19:02
@wiking	to the user	19:02
@HeikoS	haha	19:02
@wiking	that he is an idiot	19:02
@wiking	:)	19:02
@HeikoS	ok agreed :D	19:02
@wiking	because he transferred the data to gpu	19:03
@wiking	but not registered the gpu backend for the linalg	19:03
@HeikoS	what exactly means registiering the gpu backend?	19:03
@wiking	well you say to the linalg 'interface'	19:03
@wiking	linalg::register_backend(LinalgImplementation)	19:04
@wiking	i mean the thing is here	19:04
@HeikoS	and this happens in the algorithms	19:04
@wiking	or whenever	19:04
@wiking	user can override this	19:04
@wiking	at any point of time	19:04
@wiking	i mean	19:04
@wiking	the idea is here	19:04
@wiking	that we can have	19:04
@wiking	N different CPU linalg backends	19:05
@wiking	and K different GPU linalg backends	19:05
@wiking	right?	19:05
@HeikoS	yes	19:05
@wiking	so actually	19:05
@wiking	i would have in linalg	19:05
@wiking	a function	19:05
@wiking	linalg::transfer_to_gpu(SGMatrix)	19:05
@wiking	and then it'll use the registered GPU backend	19:05
@wiking	and if no backend is available	19:05
@HeikoS	ok but by "user" you mean shogun developer that writes algo?	19:05
@wiking	i.e. not registered	19:05
@HeikoS	or actualy user?	19:06
@wiking	well that's the thing	19:06
@wiking	you dont want to anchor the actual GPU backend	19:06
@wiking	or?	19:06
@HeikoS	no	19:06
@HeikoS	definitely	19:06
@wiking	i mean you just want that the algo using gpu	19:06
@HeikoS	we want to be able to change	19:06
@wiking	if possible	19:06
@HeikoS	yeah	19:06
@wiking	but you dont really care	19:06
@wiking	if it's cuda or something else	19:06
@wiking	or?	19:06
@HeikoS	so inside algorithm, we just assert that fact THAT there is GPU, not WHICH backend	19:06
@wiking	yep	19:06
@wiking	because it should be the user's decision	19:07
@HeikoS	about the runtime error	19:07
@HeikoS	user doesnt register GPU backend	19:07
@wiking	which actual implementation of linalg he wanna use	19:07
@HeikoS	but calls algo which contains a transfer	19:07
@HeikoS	should still work right?	19:07
@wiking	yyeah	19:07
@wiking	it's a NOP	19:07
@wiking	you can warning it	19:07
@wiking	so that the user knows	19:07
@wiking	that it's gonna be shit	19:07
@HeikoS	yeah	19:07
@wiking	because he didn't register a GPU backend	19:07
@HeikoS	yeah	19:08
@wiking	its either intentional	19:08
@wiking	or by mistake	19:08
@wiking	user will decide	19:08
@HeikoS	ok cool	19:08
@HeikoS	I am happy with this	19:08
@wiking	btw	19:08
@wiking	the soon we'll have to have	19:08
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: overwhelmed? ;)	19:08
@wiking	shogun.config file	19:08
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: make sure you ask questions	19:08
@HeikoS	since you will be the person drafting this	19:08
@HeikoS	IRC_log -> C++ prototype -> shogun code	19:09
@wiking	sanuj ^ when you read the irc logs	19:09
OXPHOS	HeikoS: I'll take some time to digest :P	19:09
@wiking	maybe with the whole plugins thing	19:09
@wiking	we'll need to add a support for shogun config	19:09
@wiking	because	19:09
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: one thing is that most of the design doesnt depend on linalg being a plugin yet	19:09
@wiking	a) where are the .so-s residing	19:09
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: the transfer calls, the method signatures the unit tests etc etc	19:09
@wiking	b) which linalg backend you wanna use	19:09
@wiking	HeikoS: ^ what do you say	19:09
@wiking	?	19:09
@HeikoS	wiking: yeah	19:09
@HeikoS	I think that is good	19:10
@wiking	i think this should be config file	19:10
@wiking	or seomthing	19:10
@HeikoS	yeah definitely	19:10
@HeikoS	good for experiments	19:10
@wiking	because the parameters will grow very rapidly	19:10
@HeikoS	we can actually use that to replace these horrible HMM_USE_SHORT_REAL	19:10
@wiking	i mean a simple key=value file is good	19:10
@wiking	yeah indeed	19:10
@HeikoS	USE_BENCHMARK_KMEANS_XYZ_IMPL	19:10
@HeikoS	yep	19:10
@HeikoS	wiking: I know	19:10
@HeikoS	we can use a	19:10
@HeikoS	Python dictionary	19:10
@HeikoS	hahah ;D	19:10
@wiking	:DDDDDDDDDDDD	19:10
@wiking	json? :D	19:11
@HeikoS	yeah or just text	19:11
@HeikoS	whatever	19:11
@HeikoS	good idea	19:11
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: btw as for priorities	19:11
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: can you write this down in a summary?	19:11
@HeikoS	in your doc	19:11
OXPHOS	HeikoS: doens't really know how plugin makes a difference yet :( ... will look up	19:11
@HeikoS	design goals, API details	19:11
OXPHOS	HeikoS: sure	19:11
@wiking	HeikoS: you are using her as a secretary? :)	19:11
@HeikoS	well it is her project	19:12
@wiking	hehehe and sanuj's	19:12
@wiking	:>	19:12
OXPHOS	XD	19:12
@HeikoS	wiking: thanks for discussion btw, super helpful	19:15
@wiking	no worries	19:15
@lambday	wiking: that really helped a lot	19:15
@wiking	:)	19:15
@HeikoS	OXPHOS: about the cereal stuff, I think we can only really discuss this once there is a prototype	19:15
@wiking	++	19:15
@lambday	gottta run for now.. see you!	19:15
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@HeikoS	please let us know if there are any problems creating this	19:15
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: you are still around?	19:16
@wiking	OXPHOS: if you have a problem with cereal let me know i can help	19:16
@wiking	and with the docs	19:16
@wiking	just put anything into your gdocs	19:16
@wiking	ping me	19:16
@wiking	and then we can review	19:16
@wiking	it really doesn't matter if it's not perfectly clear	19:16
@wiking	jsut lets ahve something that we can later modify etc	19:16
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: please use callgrind to profile benchmarks you write -- in particular for the cache miss	19:16
@wiking	prof	19:17
@wiking	:)	19:17
@wiking	best profiler	19:17
@wiking	:>	19:17
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: I have this idea of systematically checking all the algorithms you touch, and producing a report for the end	19:17
@HeikoS	or prof ^:)	19:17
@wiking	mmm but	19:17
@wiking	we should actually	19:17
@wiking	buildbot this	19:17
@HeikoS	we should really be aware	19:17
@HeikoS	wiking: good point	19:17
@wiking	(systematically checking algos)	19:17
@wiking	i mean i'm now w8ing on amazon	19:18
@HeikoS	and creating historam	19:18
@HeikoS	haha	19:18
@wiking	as then i'm moving all the builds	19:18
@HeikoS	yeah	19:18
@HeikoS	:)	19:18
@wiking	to aws	19:18
@HeikoS	profiler can be on aws right?	19:18
@wiking	and use our current machines	19:18
@wiking	nono	19:18
@wiking	it's not reliable	19:18
@wiking	but we have our own machines	19:18
@HeikoS	for like l2 cache miss?	19:18
@wiking	we can do those there	19:18
@wiking	nono aws is a shit	19:18
@wiking	it's VPS	19:18
OXPHOS	Sure thank you guys	19:18
@wiking	so the actual IO and CPU performance	19:18
@wiking	pretty much depends	19:18
OXPHOS	So far cereal doesn't seem to be big issue	19:18
@wiking	on the host machine's load	19:19
@wiking	so doing benchmarks on aws is really not a good idea	19:19
@wiking	as it's not consistent	19:19
@wiking	rcurtin and mlpack is not using aws for the same reason for benchmarking	19:19
@wiking	but once we have the aws credits	19:19
@wiking	we can move every test build there	19:20
@wiking	and use the barebone machines	19:20
@wiking	for benhcmarking	19:20
@HeikoS	ok	19:20
@HeikoS	yeah I see	19:20
@HeikoS	get it	19:20
@HeikoS	wiking: man I am really amazed by this cache miss/git thing	19:20
@HeikoS	such a big difference	19:20
@HeikoS	between c++ impementations	19:20
@HeikoS	I mean factor 8 -- come on	19:20
@HeikoS	of my 2012 gsoc project to what we hav enow	19:21
@HeikoS	and thats not even multicore	19:21
@wiking	HeikoS: what actually did you there?	19:32
@wiking	random accessed the CFeatures?	19:32
@HeikoS	yes kernel matrix	19:32
@HeikoS	based on block wise sums	19:32
@HeikoS	of a big matrix	19:32
@HeikoS	that is permuted	19:33
@wiking	ah	19:33
@wiking	i see	19:33
@HeikoS	so just changing from reading sequentially over permutation vector to sequentially over data helped a lot	19:33
@HeikoS	then some other things	19:33
@HeikoS	that depend on algo	19:33
@wiking	ah btw	19:34
@wiking	WHO WILL	19:34
@wiking	do as part of gsoc	19:34
@wiking	the subset of CFeatures	19:35
@wiking	:>	19:35
@wiking	threadsafe	19:35
@wiking	and i really want that on the end of this gsoc	19:36
@HeikoS	haha	19:38
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: ^	19:38
@HeikoS	add that to your listr	19:38
@HeikoS	for your bagging machine right?	19:38
@wiking	anything	19:38
@wiking	i mean it would be nice to have a thread-safe view on a cfeatures	19:39
@wiking	:)	19:39
@HeikoS	wiking: actually	19:39
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: already brought that up	19:39
@HeikoS	what would be cool	19:39
@HeikoS	would be a general view	19:39
@HeikoS	on matrices and vectors	19:39
@HeikoS	not just features	19:39
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@HeikoS	that also includes dimensions	19:39
@HeikoS	like numpy array	19:40
@wiking	yeah yeah	19:41
@wiking	i mean i dont care how it is solved :)	19:42
@wiking	and how abstract it is	19:42
@wiking	jsut that we have this fixed	19:42
@HeikoS	kk	19:44
@HeikoS	also needed for parallel xvalidation	19:44
@HeikoS	Saurabh7: that is another one for your project	19:44
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arianepaola	wiking: sure	21:22
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