| --- Log opened Mon Sep 24 00:00:17 2012 | ||
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| shogun-buildbot_ | build #111 of nightly_default is complete: Failure [failed test] Build details are at http://www.shogun-toolbox.org/buildbot/builders/nightly_default/builds/111 | 04:14 |
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| blackburn | sonne|work: lua appears to recursively call typemap on my machine | 14:16 |
| blackburn | did that ever happen to you? | 14:16 |
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| blackburn | heiko: hey | 15:10 |
| heiko | blackburn hi | 15:10 |
| blackburn | how are you? | 15:10 |
| heiko | blackburn, thanks I am fine how are you? | 15:10 |
| blackburn | fine but I am about to fall asleep right now :D | 15:11 |
| blackburn | anything new with shogun stuff you do? | 15:11 |
| blackburn | last days I have changed SGSttring a little | 15:11 |
| heiko | I saw that, nice | 15:11 |
| blackburn | now lua fails thoguh | 15:11 |
| heiko | I postponed the labels stuff | 15:12 |
| heiko | since we need to discuss that properly | 15:12 |
| heiko | with others | 15:12 |
| blackburn | after vodka | 15:12 |
| heiko | switched to making statistical tests work with streaming features | 15:12 |
| blackburn | to make that more productive | 15:12 |
| heiko | lol :) yeah | 15:12 |
| heiko | I find it is a serious problem that we cannot do structures of SG* data so I dont want to touch that yet | 15:12 |
| heiko | all this effort went into serialization, would be a stupid to just drop that now | 15:13 |
| blackburn | heiko: are you having more time now? | 15:13 |
| heiko | blackburn, kind of yes | 15:13 |
| blackburn | may be we could get back to kaggle? | 15:13 |
| blackburn | or rather say to kaggle idea | 15:14 |
| heiko | oh yeah, tell me about it | 15:14 |
| heiko | I dont know if I have *that* much time, but its interesting anyways | 15:14 |
| blackburn | well - what can I tell - we join a team and attack some problem | 15:14 |
| blackburn | and probably earn money and all hail to shogun :D | 15:14 |
| heiko | probably? :) | 15:15 |
| heiko | I participated earlier this year | 15:15 |
| heiko | and got to place 150 or so | 15:15 |
| heiko | so no money :) | 15:16 |
| blackburn | nah don't be so pessimistic, there is always a chance | 15:16 |
| heiko | there is | 15:16 |
| blackburn | recently one guy that used scikits reported that he won something | 15:16 |
| heiko | just my experience | 15:17 |
| heiko | I wont do it for the money anyways | 15:17 |
| heiko | there are much better ways getting to money ;) | 15:17 |
| heiko | but its fun! | 15:17 |
| heiko | and one learns something | 15:17 |
| blackburn | yeah it is always wrong to do anything for money :) | 15:17 |
| blackburn | lets talk about that once again this week | 15:18 |
| blackburn | I will check any competitions we could take participance in | 15:18 |
| heiko | ah you haven't got something particular yet? | 15:18 |
| blackburn | heh no, did you think I have? | 15:19 |
| blackburn | my mistake :) | 15:19 |
| blackburn | no, nothing yet | 15:19 |
| heiko | ok so just an idea | 15:20 |
| heiko | well ok | 15:20 |
| blackburn | exactly | 15:20 |
| heiko | say blackburn, do you know the streaming features a bit? | 15:20 |
| blackburn | yeah a bit | 15:20 |
| heiko | I wonder if there is the possibility to compute kernel values with them | 15:20 |
| heiko | using the CStreamingFeatures interface only | 15:20 |
| heiko | without knowing the type of features | 15:21 |
| heiko | I just want to compute kernel values of features that I stream | 15:22 |
| heiko | and then forget | 15:22 |
| blackburn | it seems that no, we can't | 15:22 |
| heiko | strange | 15:22 |
| blackburn | well first of all it should be | 15:22 |
| heiko | thats the whole point of having streaming features | 15:22 |
| blackburn | dotfeatures not just features | 15:22 |
| heiko | what do you mean? | 15:23 |
| blackburn | do you need some custom kernel for that? | 15:23 |
| blackburn | or dot-based? | 15:23 |
| heiko | no a shogun kernel is fine | 15:23 |
| heiko | no any type please | 15:23 |
| heiko | CKernel interface | 15:23 |
| blackburn | ah so any possible shogun kernel | 15:23 |
| blackburn | that's a problem | 15:23 |
| heiko | Gaussian kernel as a working example | 15:24 |
| blackburn | why do you need that at all? | 15:24 |
| blackburn | :D | 15:24 |
| heiko | when feature data is too large to fit in memory | 15:24 |
| heiko | I want to stream it | 15:24 |
| heiko | and I only need kernel values of certain pairs | 15:24 |
| heiko | and I want to stream these | 15:25 |
| heiko | large - scale stuff | 15:25 |
| blackburn | currently we pull vectors one by one | 15:25 |
| heiko | I only need sums of kernel values | 15:25 |
| blackburn | from features | 15:25 |
| blackburn | is that ok for you? | 15:25 |
| heiko | I would prefer some blocks but one by one is fine to start with | 15:25 |
| heiko | I have two streaming features | 15:26 |
| heiko | and need two samples from each | 15:26 |
| heiko | and then kernel of all combinations, that are 4 values | 15:26 |
| blackburn | are you sure you need streaming but not just file features? | 15:26 |
| heiko | is there a difference? | 15:26 |
| blackburn | yeah streaming is not really for random access | 15:27 |
| heiko | why? | 15:27 |
| heiko | I just need "one more" functionality | 15:27 |
| blackburn | it is rather something for online learning when examples come all the time | 15:27 |
| heiko | yeah thats what I need | 15:27 |
| heiko | do you got another idea? | 15:28 |
| blackburn | let me make it more clear - do you have unknown stream of features? | 15:28 |
| blackburn | or just big data | 15:28 |
| heiko | I need this: "give me four more examples from features" | 15:28 |
| blackburn | there is a difference | 15:28 |
| blackburn | well I am unsure streaming is what you need still | 15:28 |
| heiko | whats the difference? | 15:28 |
| blackburn | streaming known only one feature vector - current | 15:29 |
| blackburn | and it just gives you more current vectors one by one | 15:29 |
| heiko | but thats what I need, I just need 4 at once | 15:29 |
| heiko | or two from each feature instance | 15:29 |
| blackburn | but why do you need streaming then? | 15:30 |
| heiko | I need 4 at once for many many times | 15:30 |
| blackburn | ah wait | 15:31 |
| blackburn | so you have two current vectors | 15:31 |
| blackburn | and compute kernel values? | 15:31 |
| heiko | yes | 15:31 |
| heiko | then forget these | 15:31 |
| heiko | and repeat | 15:31 |
| blackburn | ah okay then it is the streaming thing | 15:31 |
| blackburn | but I don't think you can handle that in general way | 15:31 |
| blackburn | at least currently | 15:32 |
| heiko | strange | 15:32 |
| heiko | online kernel algorithms face exactly the same problem | 15:32 |
| blackburn | we have only linear algorithms | 15:33 |
| blackburn | or even algorithm | 15:33 |
| heiko | ah we dont have kernel on-line stuff? | 15:33 |
| heiko | though so | 15:34 |
| heiko | thought | 15:34 |
| heiko | what about adding something like this | 15:34 |
| heiko | let me think | 15:35 |
| heiko | maybe add a method to CKernel | 15:35 |
| heiko | get_kernel_matrix(num_streaming_samples) | 15:35 |
| heiko | which only works if underlying features are streams | 15:35 |
| blackburn | kernel matrix? | 15:36 |
| heiko | or even overload old one | 15:36 |
| heiko | yeah in case one wants to sample multiple features at once | 15:36 |
| blackburn | I do not understand that cause we are assumed to have kind of infinite examples | 15:36 |
| blackburn | in case of streaming features | 15:36 |
| heiko | which is a single scalar in case of one sample | 15:36 |
| heiko | yeah but you want kernel matrices on small subsets in streaming | 15:36 |
| heiko | extreme case is one example from each stream -1x1 kernel matrix | 15:36 |
| heiko | to make it easier | 15:37 |
| blackburn | I don't mind to add some | 15:37 |
| heiko | overload CKernel::kernel | 15:37 |
| blackburn | StreamingKernel | 15:37 |
| blackburn | no idea how should that work though | 15:37 |
| heiko | but then we would have to create a new subclass for each existing kernel or? | 15:37 |
| blackburn | yeah that's the worst ever way | 15:37 |
| heiko | or we pass an existing kernel to StreamingKernel | 15:38 |
| heiko | that is then used for evaluation | 15:38 |
| heiko | CStreamingKernel(CKernel* single_kernel, CStreamingFeatures* p, CStreamingFeatures* q) | 15:38 |
| heiko | and if you call CStreamingKernel::kernel(index_t m) you get a mxm matrix for streamed values | 15:39 |
| blackburn | oops I've got an email about my appliance to new job | 15:39 |
| blackburn | :D | 15:39 |
| heiko | ? | 15:39 |
| blackburn | I sent my CV to some company | 15:40 |
| heiko | congrats then! | 15:41 |
| blackburn | let me phone them to ask when can I be interviewed | 15:42 |
| heiko | okay, good luck | 15:43 |
| blackburn | oops I have interview tomorrow | 15:48 |
| heiko | wow | 15:52 |
| blackburn | heiko: so you want to have a method that computes mxm for first streaming vectors, right? | 15:53 |
| heiko | yeah | 15:53 |
| heiko | I think I have a solution: | 15:53 |
| heiko | CStreamingKernel as described above | 15:53 |
| heiko | which you can ask for an mxn matrix on streamed samples | 15:54 |
| heiko | and this is computed as follows: | 15:54 |
| heiko | I add a get_features_bla method to CStreamingFeatures, which returns a non-streaming feature object with samples from the stream | 15:54 |
| heiko | and these "normal" features (e.g. dense) are then put into kernel and matrix is computed | 15:55 |
| heiko | do you see any problems with that? | 15:55 |
| heiko | blackburn, I dont see any, should work | 15:58 |
| blackburn | yes good idea I think | 15:59 |
| blackburn | two features at the time | 16:00 |
| heiko | or even more (may be set by a method) | 16:00 |
| heiko | in case one needs blocks | 16:00 |
| blackburn | blocks like? | 16:09 |
| heiko | say 100 features at once | 16:12 |
| blackburn | features ? or feature vectors? | 16:14 |
| heiko | I am currently using both terms for the same thing | 16:23 |
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| heiko | blackburn, I made a draft and sent a PR. Let me know what you think | 17:03 |
| blackburn | heiko: looks valid | 17:05 |
| heiko | blackburn, from my class I can then just ask for 2x2 kernel matrices on the streaming data and work with that | 17:05 |
| heiko | will leave it open for some time for sonney2k to have a look at it, maybe he has suggestions. | 17:05 |
| blackburn | okay | 17:06 |
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| wiking | blackburn: yo | 19:48 |
| wiking | seems it works | 19:48 |
| blackburn | wiking: your code? | 19:54 |
| wiking | yep | 19:54 |
| wiking | it did converge | 19:54 |
| blackburn | what is it btw? | 19:54 |
| blackburn | SO latent svm? | 19:54 |
| wiking | based on bmrm | 19:54 |
| wiking | yeah | 19:54 |
| blackburn | nice | 19:55 |
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| voket | Hey all. I am attempting to serialize a CRelaxedTree. The built-in print_serialized was hitting an infinite loop, so I am writing my own visiting function, but I am puzzled by the printed kernels -- in my two node tree, the second node has a three dimensional kernel when I expected a two dimensional one like the root. Any ideas? | 23:07 |
| voket | I am using a LinearKernel and calling its save method with a CAsciiFile | 23:07 |
| blackburn | voket: hey.. let me check | 23:08 |
| blackburn | voket: you meant save_serializable, right? | 23:10 |
| voket | not on the kernel. Should I be using save_serializable instead of save()? | 23:10 |
| voket | blackburn: save_serializable looked like it had a thornier interface, but I can switch over. I'll try that and get back to you. | 23:11 |
| blackburn | voket: well yes, the method you should rather use is save_serializable | 23:12 |
| blackburn | voket: save(FILE* f) is something deprecated like actually | 23:13 |
| voket | blackburn: Ok. I will switch over and see if I can get it to behave. Thanks for the help. | 23:14 |
| blackburn | however we need to assure that RelaxedTree registers its parameters properly | 23:14 |
| blackburn | voket: what do you need to store? | 23:14 |
| voket | blackburn: It looks like it is using SG_ADD in its constructor, but when I print i just get a mess of growing ascii. | 23:14 |
| blackburn | are you features big? | 23:15 |
| blackburn | we have one problem I didn't manage to find time to solve | 23:15 |
| voket | blackburn: I want the trained learner from each level, so: For each node, Left classes, right classes, support vectors, alphas, bias | 23:16 |
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| blackburn | the problem is that all submachines (tree nodes) should have a copy of features | 23:16 |
| blackburn | it can become huge.. | 23:16 |
| voket | Submachines get a local copy of the features? Why can't they just have a view? | 23:17 |
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| blackburn | voket: no technical problem - just a thing to be improved | 23:18 |
| voket | At the moment I am testing with a small toy dataset, but it's good to know that I may run into scaling issues. | 23:18 |
| blackburn | it is on our todo list | 23:19 |
| blackburn | so I hope we will fix that somehow - I don't mind to patch multiclass machines somehow for now | 23:19 |
| voket | Ohhhh. The reason the print_serializable is infinitely looping is that children have their parent as one of their serialized parameters. | 23:21 |
| blackburn | oops | 23:21 |
| voket | I'll fix it and pull request | 23:21 |
| blackburn | thanks, we'd appreciate any improvements | 23:21 |
| voket | I am happy to help - one of my pull requests was merged in this weekend (aasted on github) | 23:22 |
| blackburn | ahh so now I recognize you better :) | 23:22 |
| blackburn | I am lisitsyn at github | 23:23 |
| voket | Nice to meet you. I am looking at the serialization code -- is there a reason that print is not just a save using stdout? | 23:27 |
| voket | Also, is there a quick way to break this recursion loop? I could just unregister the parent parameter, but it would be better if the parameter printer just detected cycles. | 23:32 |
| blackburn | re | 23:32 |
| blackburn | let me check what print does | 23:32 |
| blackburn | voket: yes we need to handle cycles there | 23:32 |
| blackburn | but it is a nightmare :) | 23:32 |
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| --- Log closed Mon Sep 24 23:32:59 2012 | ||
| --- Log opened Mon Sep 24 23:33:06 2012 | ||
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| voket | Yes, huge nightmare. So long as print/save are not generating objects it could be just be a hash map by memory location stored in the CSerializableFile. But that's kind of ugly. | 23:35 |
| voket | Is there any way I can mark a parameter to be excluded from serialization? Also it looks like the person who wrote the tree class knew about this since they wrote their own debug_print function. | 23:36 |
| blackburn | well with brute force it could be excluded for sure | 23:38 |
| blackburn | voket: the author of this code is chiyuan zhang, our gsoc 2012 student | 23:40 |
| blackburn | you may attempt to talk to him using mailing list actually - not sure if he has time now - he joined phd at MIT | 23:41 |
| voket | Ok. For now I will write a workaround in my local code and then see if I can write a better workaround in general to push upstream. | 23:43 |
| blackburn | yeah that's what I wanted to suggest for now | 23:44 |
| voket | I'll only bug Chiyuan Zhang if I need to -- the first month of a PhD is a bad time to get a hold of someone. | 23:44 |
| blackburn | heh yeah | 23:45 |
| blackburn | are you applying these complicated tree methods? | 23:45 |
| voket | I had planned on it. Is that a mistake? | 23:46 |
| blackburn | no,no, I just wanted to know if it works in practice well | 23:47 |
| blackburn | I never tried | 23:47 |
| --- Log closed Mon Sep 24 23:53:30 2012 | ||
| --- Log opened Mon Sep 24 23:53:40 2012 | ||
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| !hitchcock.freenode.net [freenode-info] why register and identify? your IRC nick is how people know you. http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | 23:53 | |
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| blackburn | voket: why do you stick to trees btw? | 23:53 |
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| blackburn | okay, I'm leaving now | 23:59 |
| blackburn | see you | 23:59 |
| voket | ok. thanks for your help | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Tue Sep 25 00:00:17 2012 | ||
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